darkrose50 said:

Well, the cost of several weapons got reduced as of the Week 3 updated, so the longsword argument is a bit dated. Still, you're not starting off rich in this game, so if using a D&D comparison, it'd be akin to starting off with enough gold for a longsword, a few torches, and an empty backpack.

Also, the +10 Obligation bump is +2500 credits, giving you six times the default starting allowance of credits.

Given how much more potent cybernetic implants in this game are, I wouldn't want a character to be able to start with one unless their character's backstory really justified it. A replacement limb with no bonuses is fine, but the moment a bonus is involved, nothing doing (at least for me).

As for starting with a droid, that's something a GM can easily provide for free, particularly with a decent backstory that justifies the droid's presence, but I don't think the starting credits should be inflated just to include that option, since it would just open the door for other players to purchase all sorts of high-end weapons and armor that they'd otherwise not be able to get access to.

There are several ideas I am presenting: [1] characters need credits or gear to fulfill certain archetypes, and [2] one way to get these credits is to loot the bodies.

Thusly one can either [1] provide a more adequate amount of starting credits (or ancillary access to items), or [2] provide additional ways to obtain items or credits in order to get a proper kit by means other than looting bodies.

One does not need to be powerful to have neat toys. I remember a game where I looted a fancy towel from an estate that I had a great deal many uses for. There are plenty of games where one starts as a gadgeteer, mad scientist, or powered armored hero without outclassing other characters. A hidden weapon in some armor, or something that looks cool can just be special effects.

We have a starting credit amount. I do not think it is adequate to fulfill many archetypes with a proper kit. We have a method to acquire additional credits. I do not think it is adequate to fulfill many archetypes. For example one cannot start with a cybernetic replacement or a droid. I find this to be a shame.

I much rather prefer the starting equipment WEG’s D6 afforded. A pilot started with an X-Wing and a Young Jedi started with an Astromech for the love of Gygax. A bountyhunter started out with a proper kit (two blasters, a thermal detonator, two knives, light armor, jet pack, two medpacks, and 1,000 credits). Characters had armor, weapons, and a 10’ pole. I do not remember anyone thinking that they were “overpowered” in the least. They had gear that fit their concept. This new version of a Star Wars RPG does not make that possible by the RAW and I find that to be a shame. Obligation should be a method to buy these items to fill out a concept.

Now having said that it is sometimes fun to start with a loincloth and an oak club. However I do not think that should be the gold standard.

darkrose50 said:

On that point at least, we do agree.

However, I'd be perfectly happy with a sidebar advising GMs (mostly the newer ones) that it's perfectly kosher to provide your PCs with double, triple, or possibly even qaudruble the normal starting funds. That what, those GMs who like having their PCs start out with very little kir or a lot of obligation to get some better gear can do so, while those of us that are feeling a tad more generous have that option as well for when we want it.

I prefer the Savage Worlds route… which gives the players starting funds to buy things that aren't STANDARD for the basic cost-of-living in the setting. So, in the modern world, a character starting with $500 would have clothes, a home, a vehicle and a cell phone as that is pretty much standard. That leaves the starting money to buy a weapon and some non-standard items.

Same thing with EotE. You start with 500 credits (unless you take some Obligation), but the entire party also starts with a ship already. So, since they have a ship, they don't need to worry about basic foods supplies and basic clothing. So, that means they just need to focus on the few extras which are easily obtainable via that first 10 Obligation. This isn't a setting where people run around in armor or carrying heavy weapons unless they really mean to cause trouble. Heck, I think Boba Fett was the only bounty hunter of the group fully decked out in armor and those were the best the galaxy had to offer that would work with the likes of Vader. So, expecting starting characters to have that much gear…

There is also an opportunity here for FFG to possibly create a "wealth system" for the game, rather than deal with a defined credit system.

For instance, a character has to make a check with a difficulty based on the rarity. The more affluent the character, the number of boost dice they have.

Making a skill check to purchase items. This could lead to dynamic play, as a number of threat could lower a characters wealth score significantly. A Despair symbol could mean the authorities were alerted to the character buying an illegal weapon, etc.

I'll work on some mechanics for this, but a starting character could have a weath score of 1 - meaning 1 boost die, they can keep trying to purchase things until they roll a number of failures (which reduce the boost die wealth score)

Taking higher obligation gives more boost dice, but you could lose them all trying to buy that heavy blaster rifle.

Just an idea.

Kallabecca said:

It is the (Hollywood version of the) Wild West, so even when drinking in the saloon, everyone will have a Colt Peacemaker in a quick draw holster, and their horse tied up outside will have a Winchester repeater rifle or a shotgun in a horse scabbard, making them at least as heavily armed as any soldier of the period. Luke has a blaster rifle on his landspeeder -

I don't believe we need too many rules in the book regarding exact gear and starting money. Yes we can argue over a default rule for the core book, but of course GM's are going to alter this up or down depending on their own opinions anyway.

@Kallebacca: Who said that was a blaster rifle that Luke was carrying? It is quite different looking (very long, skinny, lots of wood, reminiscent of a musket loader) compared to the other blasters we see in the movies. You could argue that Luke's starting gear was: Slugthrower Rifle (100 cr), Macrobinoculars (75 cr), Restraining Bolt (35), and Climbing Gear (50 cr). That adds up to only 260 credits. His Landspeeder, however, costs 8,500 cr which is above the price of any starting money I've noticed suggested above. I suppose it could be granted through use of Obligation or considered a family landspeeder that Luke picked up soon after the campaign started (his family being killed during the first adventure).

Sturn said:

In Luke's case, the speeder was the granted starting vehicle, just like the party gets a starship as part of their starting gear for no cost.

ErikB said:

That sure doesn't look like a blaster rifle to me.

Now this looks like a blaster rifle.

Blaster rifles come in many forms.

It is certainly a laser rifle in the script, as are all the other blasters.

EXTERIOR: TATOOINE -- ROCK CANYON -- FLOOR.        The speeder is parked on the floor of a massive canyon. Luke,        with his long laser rifle slung over his shoulder, stands        before little Artoo.(later)

        A powerful blow from the unpleasant creature sends the        young would-be Jedi sailing across the room, crashing through        tables and breaking a large jug filled with a foul-looking        liquid. With a blood curdling shriek, the monster draws a        wicked chrome laser pistol from his belt and levels it at old        Ben. The bartender panics.BARTENDER: No blasters! No blaster!           With astounding agility old Ben's laser sword sparks to        life and in a flash an arm lies on the floor.

Clearly, there is a market for rifles in traditional forms in order to get around the 'assault weapons' ban introduced by the empire. :-)

Kallabecca said:

Nashtah Dundee: "That's not a blaster—" <pulls out a DLT-20A, smiles> "—that's a blaster!"

That takes me way back. I think the novel also described Luke's rifle as a, "laser", instead of a blaster? I recall wondering at the time (I've read both the novel and script, can't recall which when I wondered), if Lucas meant the laser rifle was something different and archaic, not just another name for a blaster rifle. It was probably just a missed rewrite when Lucas decided to call his laser weapons, "blasters", but it could have been interpreted as something different. Imagine if WEG would have noticed the different names and explained that some old, lesser damage but more accurate and longer ranged, laser rifles were still being used. It could have changed the weapon charts for many future Star Wars RPGs.

Here is how I would handle things (using obligation to buy items and such):

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=318&efcid=46&efidt=735297

http://www.criticalfumble.net/forum/showthread.php?p=462367#post462367

Let me know what you guys think.

Boehm said:

It is one of the reasons I don't like "Duty" as a sole player disadvantage in GURPs… they get the benefit of it (extra points to spend) while everyone realistically is going to have the downside (it comes up and you have to do something, and unless you have a very weird group that means everyone has to help too). As essentially extra points in a dangerous military style campaign, where everyone gets it, yeah. For one guy in the group… no, or at least not at the higher levels.

"(it being a no-brainer to take the max obligation, since the benefit is personal but the "cost" shared)"

- Very Economist's view to take. I personally wouldn't. I would avoid taking Obligation like the plague, unless I actually needed the extra xp for the character concept, but then that maybe just me.

" I do not think it is adequate to fulfill many archetypes. For example one cannot start with a cybernetic replacement or a droid. I find this to be a shame."

- This isn't a freeform game. It is a character class based game. Not all concepts work in the rules, setting or presumption of the game. You cannot be Boba Fett or similar, at the start, as Boba Fett is an extremely successful, experienced, realtively wealthy, and bloodthirsty bounty hunter. At the start of Edge of Empire, you are unknown, not very experienced and decidedly not wealthy (after splurging on that spacecraft your party owns). The two concepts are not compatible. It is just a less extreme version of demanding to be a pink fluffy pony in the "DEATH TRUCK METAL RPG".