ok so far soo good I made my first character for EotE

now I made a Twi'lek slicer, gave her a secondary speciality of Gadgeteer.

everything is fine until I get to the equipment.

starting money 500.

slicing equipment price 500… blaster price … armor price…

you got to be kidding.

stim pack are essentials…

so basically you have no choice but to take extra obligations to get decent equipment.

this cant be right! There is no way you can have a bounty hunter with weapons and armor with starting money!

and 2500 credit for TEN obligation points???

starting money should be raised to 1000 credits. at least you can get bare decent equipment - a slicer can get his gear , one blaster and minimal armor and some stim pack…

then for 5 obligation 2500 and for 10 give 7500 - less than that I don't think its worth the trouble.

your opinion?

You don't need to spend all your starting cash on a blaster pistol. A light blaster pistol is only 300CR, while a slugthrower pistol is a measly 100CR! You do have a point on the armour, though, it's all pretty pricy.

-EF

Actually, even with the new revised prices, it's a little ridiculous to expect players to actually be able to get their appropriate gear with 500cr.

My recommendation is 500cr plus a standardized Kit that every class gets.

Bounty Hunters get some armour and a blaster weapon of choice out of a list of pistols, carbines or rifle (Not heavy or higher), comm link, everything else, you buy. Same thing with a Hired Gun.

The Explorer, Colonist and Technician, a blaster pistol, the various tools for their jobs, again, anything else, they buy.

The Smuggler is a tricky one, because without a vehicle, he's pretty much SOL for his job, especially the Pilot specialty. But again, hand blaster, maybe some really light armour, a couple of tools and maybe a speeder or a ship.

I know this topic came up before, that starting fund were rather limited.

One fairly common house rule that a few GMs (myself included) use is to just double the starting funds to 1000 credits, permitting the PCs to buy a decent weapon and still have access to most fo the gear that qutie a few character types would need to do their thing. Seems to have worked out pretty well so far and it didn't destroy the game.

Howver, it seems that FFG's intent was that the PCs start off fairly poor and thus desperate for credits, either taking extra Obligation to get the additional money up front, or be more willing to take riskier jobs from less trustworthy persons.

Personally, I'd be happy with a sidebar that offers suggestions of doubling or tripling the starting funds for PCs. Make it something of an official house-rule I guess.

Chris Brady said:

It is a fairly common trope in westerns that the first thing a character has to do upon finding a mission in life is get their guns back from the barman who they traded them to in exchange for more alcohol. You could maybe use that excuse… once.

To be honest, I think you have basically three options: 1) keep the money levels the way it is if the players want more starting cash then they take extra obligation, 2) increase the starting funds possibly doubling or tripling if you believe that the players should have that much, 3) tell the players to make a list of what they think their character should have and then go through the list making sure they haven't gone mad.

Don't forget that every group gets a ship according to the RAW, so that is not something you need to worry about unless it doesn't fit your campaign concept.

Chris Brady said:

This was something I was thinking about as well. It is not unreasonable that the characters would have some equipment to start off with.

The type of equipment would be based on the first choice of specialisation the player chooses (additional purchase of specialisations do not grant additional equipment)

Here are my initial thoughts on this:

BOUNTY HUNTER

Assassin - Blaster Rifle with telescopic sight

Gadgeteer - Modded Armour or Modded Blaster pistol

Survivialist - Survival Knife (like combat knife buts gives 1 boost die when used with Survival skill) Blaster pistol

COLONIST

Doctor - Medpac or Datapad with latest medical papers (+1 boost die when used wih medicine skill)

Politico - Datapad with latest papers on local events (+1 boost die when used with negotion skill involving non-trade negotions)

Scholar - Datapad with latest papers on specific subject (+1 boost die when used with one knowledge skill chosen at time of character creation)

EXPLORER

Fringer - Blaster Pistol

Scout - Survival Kit (+1 boost die to survival skill)

Trader - Datapad with latest trde pirces (+4 boost dies to Negotiation skill invovling trade)

HIRED GUN

Bodyguard - Padded armour and blaster pistol

Maruader - Combat Knife and blaster carbine or vibrosword and blaster pistol

Mercenary - Armoured clothing or blaster rifle

SMUGGLER

Pilot - Blaster pistol and space suit

Scoundrel - Heavy Blaster Pistol

Thief - holdout pistol plus special clothing (+1 boost die to stealth skill)

TECHNICIAN

Mechanic - Personalised tool kit (+1 boost die to Mechanic skill for repairs)

Outlaw Tech - Personaised tool kit (+1 boost die to Mechinic skill for modding)

Slicer - Personalised slicing kit (+1 boost die to Computers skill when slicing)

I still feel this is unbalaned as the Bounty Hunter and Hired Gun require more expensive equipment

Appreciate any thoughts.

I have to be honest, I would avoid career packages as not every character in a career will want the same kit. We have a wookiee scoundrel with no blaster, he uses a vibrosword by preference. I would be much more inclined to leave it as it is or if you want them to have more kit just increase the starting cash.

E

eldath said:

I agree. While the kits are a fun idea, not everyone will like the same packages and so would prefer the money.

Examples:

Assassin - Blaster Rifle with telescopic sight - What if I imagined a stealthy up-close assassin with a blaster pistol?

Gadgeteer - Modded Armour or Modded Blaster pistol - Takes away from the Gadgeteer learning and having fun with mod rules at the start of the game (it's already done for him).

Bodyguard - Padded armour and blaster pistol - But I wanted to be a melee spec Bodyguard.

Scoundrel - Heavy Blaster Pistol - I was thinking of getting two hold-out blasters, one for each hand.

Sturn said:

The real call out for the package idea was to aid new and inexperienced players to the game. I mentioned this in the Game Mechanics - Character creation thread. There was a good idea to make this suggestive for new players to help choose equipment for purchase. Fully aware that more experienced players will have a better concept on what they will want to play, exactly what you have mentioned above so agree that a sum of money for them to go away and get what they want.

As for the gadgeteer, my initial thoughts were giving only one mod in a item ( a blaster pistol with increased damage or amour with better soak or a wrist launcher that fires a dart or grapple wire) leaving plenty of room for tinkering and modding

SanjuroTokage said:

For the gadgeteer, I'd be more inclined to say they get one attachment, but no mods. That way, they can spend 100CR of their starting cash and mod it as they see fit. A blaster acutating module for a pistol, or a forearm grip for a carbine, or something like that.

Give 'em enough to know that it was tinkered with before play started, but not so much as to not let the player tinker more.

-EF

SanjuroTokage said:

But in regards to the new players, they don't necessarily need the packages, as they do have a product geared directly to them. The beginner box. Many of the people purchasing the full game will be veteran roleplayers.

That Blasted Samophlange said:

I think that's a dangerous assumption to make. There's bound to be new gamers that see "Star Wars the RPG" on the shelf and pick it up that way. So while the beginner box is aimed at the "complete newb," the corebook shouldn't exclude those same people by default.

After all, I know quite a few gamers that got their start on RPGs without any sort of "training wheels version" of the game.

d20 Modern (now there's a red-headed stepchild of a game) had a pretty solid idea put forth in the 3rd party supplement Modern Player's Companion, of themed equipment packages, such as Academic, Criminal, Jet Set, Military, and Vagabond (just to name a few). It offered a bunch of mundane equipment based around that theme, and was entirely independent of a character's class.

I think that would be a better approach to "suggested gear packages" rather than tailoring them specifically to each career and/or specialization.

Personally I would be in favor of upping starting cash and allowing obligation to give a combination of cash and xp … and then be stricter with enforcing obligation as a PERSONAL obligation … ei. the fact that YOU have problems shouldnt automatically be the other players problem too …

I don't think the assumption is dangerous at all. At least in my area, RPG's are a niche market at best. A Star Wars RPG even more so. As the main book will be aimed mostly at people who have played RPG's before, there's no need to coddle them or hold their hands.

It really depends what we mean by a new player. Completely new to Roleplaying games, new to tabletop RPG's but a player of Video RPG's?

The RPG market is changing drastically. This is a dying hobby. It's hard to compete with a RPG on xbox or playstation that has great graphic detail, generally good stories, and has the hard job of GMing done for you. When I play a tabletop game, I want 100% control over everything my character does and what they use. I don't want the experience I get from playing Mass Effect or any other VRPG. I want a tabletop experience. New players, are generally either drawn in by the name or by friends. If they've never played a tabletop RPG before the beginner box is the way to go. Especially since we've had confirmation in another thread that the main book is not going to come with dice!

But this is a bit of a derail of the thread. So I'll leave it there.

I feel that if I was told I have to take this package of items, to be extremely limiting and even slightly insulting. When I make a character, I know what I want them to have, and which items are more important to the idea of said character.

As to the OP's situation where money isn't enough for everything they want, they might want to take a step back and realize that the idea of this RPG is a bit different than that of D&D or many other RPG's. A few of the character classes don't have combat skills at all. Not every character is going to be a gun toting maniac. In fact, not everyone in the universe is going to carry a gun. This is a different play style, than I think most are used to. A character doesn't necessarily have to have a gun to be an effective character. Also, many newer games seem to not show the fact that a character is, at creation, a relative newcomer to adventuring. Really, only Traveler, seems to take this into account. But that is another beast entirely. Also, the nature of this game, is that a character doesn't necessarily need a computer to hack another, they could run up to a terminal.

So when making a character, really think "What gear is at the core concept of my character?" and "What can I pick up in game?" Sometimes finding that Custom modified BlasTech DL-44 could be a great roleplaying element for a character.

Now, as to Boehm saying that "fact that YOU have problems shouldnt automatically be the other players problem too …" Leads me to think that they have never been in a relationship with another person. Everybody has their own baggage. Try arranging who's thanksgiving dinner your going to with a significant other, or arranging an RPG amongst people that have a busy schedule. Sometimes things crop up that end up affecting other people. So, if a character owes money to hutt as extra obligation, and a bounty hunter comes looking for them, well the bounty hunter is going to have to get rid of their targets bodyguards/friends most like.

Just one GM's opinion, but I feel 500 space bucks is perfectly fine for starting characters in EotE.

Have you played any games yet? I had a small group of two-thirds non-combat characters. One character had some basic equipment to aid in his work as a mechanic and some knuckle dusters for those innevitable drunken cantina brawls. The other character, a Bothan trader had a hold out blaster that the Hutt's goons confiscated from him. They sort of failed the mission due to some unexpected choices, but made it out with a fully functional speeder-bike (and barely their lives). They left their muscle behind, and he had to go toe to toe with the bounty hunter that had snuck onto their ship. He's going to need some patching up but now has a new (well slightly used) set of ceramic armor, heavy blaster rifle and a jet pack. A JET PACK!

Point is, characters should find many oportunities to add to their equipment lists during the course of their early adventures. Also, the presumed need for additional starting Obligation is definitely built into the game for players who just "want more stuff" and only makes the game better in my opinion by tying their overextended characters further into the narrative.

There's just not a lot of money out there on the fringe and not every bounty hunter can be kitted out like Boba Fett. Not without earning it, anyway.

That Blasted Samophlange said:

I fully realize this … I just feel that a GM should penalize the player taking on the obligation to a greater extend than the other players - otherwise you might as well make a rule that ALL players must take max obligation, sicne the end result would be the same (it being a no-brainer to take the max obligation, since the benefit is personal but the "cost" shared)

Boehm said:

Well, not all of the "cost" is shared, as the more Obligation you have, the more likely your personal Obligation is to come up, and the hit to Strain Threshold is doubled when the stick hits your character.

If you've got a lower starting Obligation, then that's less of a chance of it coming up, and less chance of doubles cropping up and causing you a bigger hit to your Strain Threshold.

I don't want to play Wolfenstein and start off with a pistol until I kill someone with a better gun.

I should be able to use the skills I picked right from the start and I shouldn't have to spend obligation to buy equipment to do. We already start with obligations that hardwired into the character creation. That already annoys me. But to have the starting funds be not even enough to buy blaster rifle? What if my character is a bountyhunter that uses only Ranged (Heavy)? And buying a 100 credit slugthrower is not an answer. Sand People use slugthrowers. Everyone else uses blasters. My suggestion in another thread was to give everyone a basic version of whatever item is associated with skill. A med kit goes with medicine. A blaster goes with Ranged (Light) . A datapad goes with a knowledge skill. That way players don't even need to waste time going through the equipment list and they already start off with things they can use their skills with.

I would like to point out that my 'career package' was all about player choice.

Everyone in Star Wars carries a blaster of some sort, usually just a pistol (assuming the career has Ranged-Light as a base option) so you (the player) gets to choose. Some careers get armour, again, if you're playing one of those should net you some protective gear of some sort, if you don't want the the maximum Padded option (which is totally fair, seeing as armour is not the best method of protection) you pick something else.

Again, there are certain careers that would get certain items for sure, as that's how they do their jobs, but I promote the idea of letting the player choose what fits his character best.

Will this stop min-maxers or powergamers or munchkins or whatever the kids are calling them now, no. But then, nothing but the GM will.

personally I would go both ways - I would make a starting equipement kit for every class then offer the choice for extra money but a little less than the value of the package. So you can pick the package as is or a bit of extra money - 500 extra credit or basic equipment pack worth between 600 and 800 credits.

I believe that the best way to approach this would not be to give career packages but to suggest equipment a specific career might find useful. A bodyguard or hired gun needs a weapon but if they can't afford the Blas-Tech 220 Heavy Blaster Pistol with intergrated range finder and supressor, they will still be able to afford a lower quality Merr-Sonn DT-4 Blaster Pistol. And yes they can take additional obligation to afford really nice kit especially since FFG lowered the starting obligation. After all, Han Solo had a debt from the first moments we met him due to his ejecting a cargo of spice he was smuggling for Jabba the Hutt, and so he was able to start with a nice gun and some fancy flying skills.

Also, from what I am reading I don't think there is a single thing that you can't buy with 500 credits which would stop a character from performing their 'function'. Ok, they may not have the gear they would like to begin with but it gives them something to work toward. For example, the slicer kit might sound like a vital peice of starting equipment but only seems to provide a boost dice as a bonus if used,so without one (so long as you had access to some form of computer input like a datapad or local terminal), you might expect to see either a one step increase in difficulty or a setback die being added. Would this prevent a slicer from being able to do his or her job, I don't believe so personally.

If any kind of package system was to be brought in I would hope it would be as an optional sidebar rule as many playersI have gamed with, including new players, having free choice was far preferable. As I mentioned early in this thread, if you want your players to start with more kit then give them more starting cash, or just have them make a list and vet it before you start. You are the GM and so you have the freedom to do whatever makes sense in your game. There is no right or wrong answer so long as everyone has fun. I don't believe everyone in the Star Wars universe carries a blaster but if that is the universe you want to run then that is also fine.

E

This is kinda like a rulebook saying everyone starts out with a banana and a stick of chewing gum. Sure we could all have characters walking around chewing gum and throwing bananas at Stormtroopers, but it would be silly. We could also say that GMs could allow characters to start with things other than a banana and a stick of chewing gum. I swear to you that some folks in the interwebs would argue that they would be fine with starting with a banana and a stick of chewing gum. It would be Star Wars to them.

In the past I played a Mandelorian trying to get enough credits to get outfitted like Boba Fett. So in order to do so I looted everything, including the safe. Why? Because being Boba Fett is expensive.

Here is what I said on the topic in the past:

It is a bit odd to start with 500 credits. This is akin to starting off with 15 GP in D&D. I would rank the D&D Long Sword as the equivalent to the Star Wars Blaster Pistol. You would be able to buy a Long Sword [1d8 damage] for 15 GP.

One could say, what’s wrong with a club [1d6 damage] (0 GP), a sling [1d4 damage] (0.05 GP) and a handful of rocks (0 GP)? You would be able to get things done, and have 14.95 GP left.

However, most folks would find it odd as they are used to having 3d6*10 GP to start with. Usually enough to buy a melee weapon, a ranged weapon, some armor, a backpack, and some adventuring gear to place within.

So people are like, what about my 10’ pole? Where is my wineskin? It would be nice to be a fighter with some chainmail . . . nope you got a Long Sword, deal.

If Serenity / Firefly is a template, than we should have a little more gear. I suppose starting characters can go all Ewok up in their grill by buying a camping knife (with the little saw on it), going into the woods, and making a staff or a club out of a small tree. Then buy some leather and string and make a sling, and pick up some rocks. When this is done the character could have money to buy armor and a 10’ foot pole.

I also find it odd that the 10 XP equivalent is, what, 2,000 credits. It seems a bit odd is all. I would think 10,000 so one could buy a cybernetic implant or a droid.

You're forgetting that the party also starts with a Starship which is on the order of 25,000 - 30,000 credits just for it. Also, very few characters wear armor unlike the fantasy trope of walking around all day long in fullplate. And you can get more credits, you just have to pay the price of owing something to someone (increased obligation).