After going through The Force chapter in the beta book, I see that a character has a Force Rating (0-7) that determined their power level, more or less (i.e.: the number of force dice they roll for their force point pool during power activation.) And I see that a character who first buys their way into this specialization starts with a Force Rating of 1.

What I can't seem to find anywhere is how your Force Rating increases. Is it at a certain level of XP? Is it entirely GM-awarded? Am I just blind? LOL…

Starting my campaign of this in two days, and I've got a player who already wants to be a Force-Sensitive Exile.

Help me, FFG designers… You're my only hope!

Currently, it looks like Force Rating increases are purchased as talents in the talent tree of Force Specializations. The Force-Sensitive Exile talent tree has a Force Rating increase at the 25 pt level (p. 177).

cparadis said:

Aha!!!!!

I knew I was blind… Thank you!

But don't you have to have a Force Rating of at least 1 to gain access to that Talent Tree?

Gobbo said:

Yes - but you gain a force point rating of 1 the moment you buy into that specialization. That much was clear to me, lol…

I believe anyone can take the specialization. The rules on p. 176 state that any player may choose the force sensitive exile specialization. Upon taking it you gain +1 force point (see the bonus on p. 177 where specialization skills are usually listed), which allows you to use the force, albeit modestly.

I missed that! Fantastic!

The beauty of this is that it makes Force Rating a "seventh characteristic" and you increase it per the talent tree in the way you increase the other characteristics through other talent trees. There's a wonderful symmetry, there.

cparadis said:

Anyone can take the specialization as long as their race allows them (Druids can not take the specialization) and as long as the GM approves it.

I had the opportunity to play as a Force Sensitive player in our test run of the game this past weekend. I have a Bounty Hunter Assassin (Twi'Lek) who during our adventures had his Force abilities come out when he got shot and was mad that he had been shot by a couple of stormtroopers. He screamed and made a motion with his hand and forced moved a stormtrooper (who was being held in a choke hold by a fellow player) up against the wall 2 range bands away from the close range he was at when he shot me.

Being as my character was mad it was ironic that the Force Die roll for my Resource points to use Force Move was Dark Side points (giving the GM Light Side Destiny to use those points). From then on, my character was curious about what happened and the other members in the party (especially the one that had the choke hold on the trooper) was very cautious of my character.

Blackjac said:

LOL Neither can Paladins… [JK] I assume you meant Droids.

Gobbo said:

Paladins can, but Shadow Knights can't

Sorry it was late last night and I was to tired to proofread my post. lol yes I ment Droids!

cparadis said:

If I understand the rules that also means that at this point (in EotE) the maximum Force Rating is 2, since there is one increase?

Wulfherr said:

As it currently stands, that would be correct.

It seems the main theme for Force-users where EotE is concerned is "self-trained savants" rather than "masters of the Force" that we'll see in Force & Destiny and probably other supplements down the line.

My book is still in the mail, so I'm assuming that saying that your Force Rating maxes out at 2 also means that if a player were to take the Exile Spec, drop out of it, then come back later, their Permanent Talents would not be open for "double-purchasing," right? And same with other Permanent Talents, like Dedication?

jordiver2 said:

Correct. Once you've bought a Permanent talent, it's yours to keep, even if you later drop that specialization.

I really think that an option to go above 2 would be nice to have, even if hard.

It would definitely help deal with the current problem of the Force being so lacking so far. Let those of us who want a story of becoming the new Jedi EVENTUALLY possible. And note I say this as a Wannabe player, so I can't exactly make a houserule myself if I'm in someone else's game. Maybe it should be made an optional rule that anyone can buy the Force Increase talent multiple times? Perhaps adding 5 to the cost each new level? (so the first time it's 25, as it is in the tree. Then from 2-3 is 30, 3-4 35, 4-5 40, etc etc.?)

Dulahan said:

Well, the thing to remember is that the era focus of this book isn't on Jedi and other Masters of the Force, but rather on the self-taught types. In the vast majority of the EU, the self-taught Force-users look like barely-competent idiot savants compared to a properly-trained Jedi, so I'm okay with a (current) lack of opportunity to raise one's Force Rating beyond a 2, with a 3 being the absolute ceiling for a Force Exile.

As for getting that 3, I'm thinking that when purchasing Dedication from the Force Exile tree, you can opt to apply that +1 bonus to your Force Rating. Given that there's no means whatsoever to resist Force powers (GM Chris did a dynamite example of the problem that can arise just from the Move power), getting to roll 3 dice is probably plenty, and largely guarantees that you'll get the minimum Light Side point you need to activate most abilities, and still having the option to keep one of Sense's two Ongoing effects active without totally gimping yourself.

Heck, I can already see Sense by itself being a serious problem (particularly if the PC has focused their XP on the left-hand column) should the GM only throw one or two bad guys are the party.

GM: Okay, Big Bad Dude takes a shot at the Jedi wanna-be. He's at Close Range, so that's two difficulty dice…
Jedi Wanna-Be's Player: Well, I have that Ongoing Effect from Sense up, and I've up'd the Strength, so he can suck on two Challenge dice.
GM: *rolls* yeah, those Challenge dice caused him to miss by a country mile. You're up next, Force boy.
JWBP: Well, I got the other Ongoing effect up to give me a boost to attack, and I'll use that leftover dice upgrade to give myself two extra Proficiency dice to attack with my blaster… and that's plenty of successes to hit and trigger a Crit thanks to that Triumph…
GM: *upon being informed of the damage total and crit result* Yep, that pretty much cripples the poor slob.

Admittedly, the example above is a pretty extreme scenario, but that' just with a Force Rating of 2. And that' not considering the damage boost you could get out of Move, especially if hurling something fairly big at the target.

So while as big a Jedi fan-boy as they come, I can appreciate that there's a built-in cap on Force-users at this point; your PC is going to be more along the lines of early Classic Trilogy Luke and a lot less like RotJ-era Luke, much less Prequel-Era Jedi.

Like I said, make it an optional rule, so people like you who don't want it don't need to worry if your GM doesn't want it. But those of us for whom The Force is a big part of the universe's appeal (Seriously, if I want to do anything else, I'll play a different game, all the other elements of the Star Wars setting I feel other settings do better without the Force there as an element).

Give us the option to help salve those of us who want the Force and otherwise will need to wait 3 years to get the Real McCoy. Without more powers we probably won't have it all. Let us do something! Don't just shut it down completely at "You're a padawan at best" - make it possible to be more even if it is going to be hard, even if it might not be the optimal option.

Heck, it would be extra option to get stuff like Shaman, and other such weaker traditions.

Dulahan said:

Have you read GM Chris's break down in the force feedback thread? It's hardly Palawan level--you can one-shot Boba Fett with an auto-hit attack with just Force Move, and that's not even maxed out. Why do you need to be stronger than that? What could the GM possibly throw at you from this book that would be a threat if not Boba Fett?

Inksplat said:

Yeah, but that's a Beta Test Issue that is definitely going to be dealt with, along with the unresistable Force Persuades and such, and definitely a flaw in the system. Do you honestly think that is going to survive to the full edition? I wager it will be fixed in one of the first updates of the Beta Test. Maybe not the first because they will need to do something, but definitely dealt with. Especially when even Vader had no way to defend against the same attack.

And yes, Force Rating 2 is said in the book to be a Padawan level of skill. Which is a totally different issue from the problem of the force powers being something with nothing to defend against them even if you're a force user.

I'm not even saying new powers. Just allowing Force Rating to be raised higher for a cost. Someone has to form a nucleus for new Force Traditions. To be the Shamans, the hermit mystics, the eventual nucleus of the Jedi Order when it is re-founded. After all, even the original Jedi came from somewhere, people had to learn some of those things on their own before they became an order.

Dulahan said:

It sounds like you should be able to use Dedication to raise Force Rating from how some people are talking. Even if that's not true atm, it'd seem like a good solution without even needing an extra optional rule. Then you could hit 3 by maxing Force Exile at the least, and higher if you could use other Dedications on it as well.

Dulahan said:

You're missing the point of splitting up the power tiers by book - a houserule to have Dedication work on Force Rating sounds fine, but it's simply not the focus of the game, and shoehorning it in invites a number of problems.

I'd love rules for playing a full-blown Jedi Knight. It's not here yet. This book is about A New Hope , where the only things even Obi-Wan does is distract a few troopers and Mind Trick a few more.

TheRedBaron said:

No, I'm not. And I never said give rules for a full blown knight. I said don't just stonewall the Force Rating right there. Especially since for better or worse we're at least 1.5 years out from Rebellion, and that's not even a guarantee it will have high level Force Stats. And probably 2.5 from being able to do anything Jedi. We might not need Jedi stats, but give us abilities and it helps solve the issue that for a LOT of people The Force *IS* what Star Wars is about. So since this is a beta, it is the time to discuss this stuff! Whether the answer is a "Force Exiles" Sourcebook or whatever to give further options. If enough people are believing it is an issue, then it is an issue. More options is not a crime.

Dulahan said:

Actually, with 2 Force die, you have a good chance to activate all 3 Force Ability present in the book. The other thing is the Force Exiles actually is kind a boost tree, it have so many things that may added to your other skills.

I would encourage you try to do a few test die roll with force ability with 2 Force die, and see if you can use those abilities in a reasonable rate.

I want to bring up a point that I like which is that Force Die actual reflect that beginning character is easier to be tempted by the Dark Side because it was easier to access it.

Qingtian said:

It's actually the 'in fluff' equivalency I object to. That at best in this game we can have the understanding of a Padawan. How did anyone ever get beyond that? Why can't we at least START our characters down the path to further understanding to be the nucleus of the Jedi Order or some new Order or organization (Your game depending - maybe the Jedi never are reborn, but the Killian Rangers are! Or you form some new group that's different). We honestly do not know how things are going to be in the next two books, will Rebellion allow us to go to Rank 4? 5? We don't. So until we know how it will interlace with this, we have to base arguments on the now.