KommissarK said:

No, nothing does say you have to, but you might as well go for a backpack ammo feed if all you want is a huge amount of one type of ammo and no need to reload. Shot selecter is THE option for bolt users with a variety of ammo at their disposal.

I've read more than once in this post and others that ammo count isn't revelant for the game.

It's indeed a point of view. One with witch I can not agree as player or gm? But RPG are off course a game meant to have fun with so be it. but I wanna make my point also.

Counting ammo is, in my point of view, a crucial element of RPG in a war background.

Player in DW are playing the ultimate warrior of the warhammer 40 K set-ting, and if you want them to think more than act you need to give them a real reason not to attack evrything, everytime.

Counting ammo become a tactical data that need to be accounted. Save some in one place to put hell in an other.

And with PC with huge ammount of fate they need a real reason to get anxious, and what is worse than going to fight hive tyrant when all the shots had been made against hordes…

Counting ammo is a motor for your player to act like heroes from times to times, to dispatch xenos, heretics,… with gladius and fist instead of full auto fire from afar, saving ammo for later when firepower would be crucial. Then only, and once more it is my opinion, the player can truly live a SM experience.

It's allright to play godly character with unlimited ammo but really where is the feeling of danger, where is the drama of empty magazines, where the rude self inflicting anger of shooting earlier on goblins, when now fighting mobs in armor you got to fist and a great design bolter club?

Thebigjul said:

Good point Thbigjul, i can think of a few times that characters have run out of ammo and resorted to melee, hell i once an assault marine i was playing basically headbutting a Tau battlesuit because i couldn't damage it quick enough with my chainsword, my bolt pistol was low on ammo and it kept shooting me with plasma guns. That was fun an incredibly cinematic and just wouldn't have happened with unlimited ammo - i would have flown around with my jump pack and blasted away with my pistol till i got righteous fury…

I know my players well enough to know that they are going to need an actual ammo limit, even if it is so high it is practically unlimited. It's just the way their special little minds are wired.

-K

Actually, my players are the same way. They love having an actual, hard number for ammo, but nine times out of ten, only the Devastator is engaging in ranged combat. The rest of them plan a way to get in close and charge into melee. Which, given, cost both the Devastator and the Sanguinary Guard an arm mission before last…

Fire selector allows you to place 3 mags in the weapon at the same time, so you can't reload all the different kinds of ammo at the same time either, you swap one at a time. Because of that, you wouldn't triple your ammunition in any way by spending 2 points to get one.

Still, while 3 may be the "standard" amount of clips you receive, I seem to recall reading somewhere, though to be honest I can't find it right now, that the SM's are supposed to be able to requisition, or be supplied, with an amount proper for the mission. Standard ammo is cheap, shouldn't cost any requisition but rather they should be able to choose the amount they want to bring.

BUT as with anything requisitioned, it can be denied if it doesn't make sense. If it's supposed to be a simple, short, standard mission with no real threat nearby, why would it be reasonable to get 15 clips for your bolter?

But besides those restrictions, make use of some common sense as well. Where would the 15 clips be placed? If you requisitioned 20 krak grenades, why should you be allowed if it doesn't make sense? Waste of resources shouldn't be tolerated. If you plan on taking out an entire armoured company, go with the grenades. If you're supposed to fight 30 rebels, then why should you bring that many? And where would you place them?

Though there aren't rules, that I've seen, for how many weapons and such you can carry, we all seem to agree that running around with several heavy weapons, a jump pack, and 4 basic weapons just isn't a realistic, or cool, thing to do.

So… Short, easy mission, basic 3 clips. Request for more = 4-6 total. More shouldn't fit on your body, for easy access. Same with grenades, make a limit of 12? You start with 3 frag and 3 krak which sounds much to me, so one might want to decide you have to swap a few of those or something.

Also the option of having them somewhere less easy accessible would make it more like an ammo supply in the backpack instead of combat reload thingies, so that could be ok.

Or in short, place a limit based on common sense, if you feel like it. And if PC's "abuse" it, simply place in game restrictions on them because they "waste valuable resources of the imperium".

There actually are rules (guidelines) for what you can carry in the carrying section. A Basic or Heavy weapon, a pistol, a melee weapon,your combat knife.

I go for that and 6 grenades.

Three clips (or magazines, get off my back you gun nuts), standard. That's honestly enough for any mission of standard length (instead of using the "bad logistics" GM fiat, I sometimes say the mission has been extended and you don't have a resupply).

A bolter with a Fire Selector receives three clips of standard ammunition, that's it. If they want specialty ammo they will need to provide it. If they want to plug their other two clips into the Fire Selector then so be it but they might get a stern talking from the Armorer for not using the Fire Selector as it's intended (if it was designed to just hold three clips of the same ammo, then why don't all bolters incorporate this?).

The Heavy Bolter argument is dumb, sorry. The clip size in the profile is when using a standard clip designed for a Heavy Bolter. When you add the Backpack that replaces this standardized clip and gives it a set number of ammo. The backpack carries exactly the amount of bullets it lists, you are not walking around with three backpacks. This means, however, that you do have three standard clips of ammo, because the Backpack is in addition because you purchased it or it comes as added equipment. So in the uncommon event your backpack runs out, you have three "emergency" clips to hold you until extraction.

This is how I run things. It's never been a problem.

I have yet to have a fight last more than 5 or so rounds. With a bolter firing at maximum rate of fire, that's about half a clip. For a heavy bolter with a backpack it's barely 1/8. So, as far as bolters goes, I've found it pretty pointless to keep track of bolter ammo. I've basically told my players as far as bolters go, they have enough, and if they start to run low, I'll tell them when they hit the three reloads/last 50-100 rounds mark. So far, combat hasn't been the big ammo drain, but "preventive fire". The devastator is fairly fond of keeping an eye out for good positions for an ambush. If he spots one, and there's little or no risk of collateral damage or friendly fire, he might just hose it down with the heavy bolter, as a precaution, with me giving a guesstimation of a reasonable amount of bolts.

As far as non-standard issue weapons goes, three reloads work fine. Pretty much evryone carries a bolter as backup anyway.

The only one who has ever had to reload in combat is the Battle Sister Seraphim, but 8-round bolt pistol clips will do that.