What is the Assault Marine supposed to be good at?

By Demonskunk, in Deathwatch Rules Questions

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bogi_khaosa said:

I'm assuming that to cut through the armour with a sharp weapon you just have to outdo the AP. Otherwise the armour would be itself tougher if the person wearing it is tougher,

How much damage is a bruise? Go ahead and ignore large parts of the rules in favour of your examples.

bogi_khaosa said:

What the hell was wrong with Primitive where they felt they had to change it? The BC/OW rule requires MORE memorization, not LESS, since the different weapons have different Primitive values. It improves nothing.

Is it a massive surprise that it was changed at the point at which your standard weapons* became incapable of hurting even yourself and and every member everyone you are ever likely to encounter?

*assume guard armour (ap 4) and 1D5 R primitive knives are standard. And that in previous guard on traitor guard melee's no one died.

No one's forcing you to use the rules for BC/OW for DW.

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Ok, just weighing in on the whole 'primitive' debate.

A Bloodthirster with a Strength bonus of 21 picks up a rock (an improvised weapon) and brains a SM with it. This deals 1d10+SB Pen 0 Primitive (double armour rating) damage. The SM is quite high level - he's fighting a Bloodthirster - so let's say he's got a TB of 10 and armour on his head of 8. Double to 16, add TB, 26 points of damage reduction. The Bloodthirster's SB burns through a lot of that, but that leaves final damage at 1d10-5. This means an absolute max of 5 damage. Which is stupid - a Bloodthirster should be able to slice his way through a Marine with anything from a butter-knife to his axe.

With OW/BC rules, it deals 1d10+SB Pen 0 Primitive (7) damage, -18. Thats 1d10+3 damage. Max of 10, which is still quite low, but much more sensible.

I think we're done here.

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AlphariusOmegon7 said:

Ok, just weighing in on the whole 'primitive' debate.

A Bloodthirster with a Strength bonus of 21 picks up a rock (an improvised weapon) and brains a SM with it. This deals 1d10+SB Pen 0 Primitive (double armour rating) damage. The SM is quite high level - he's fighting a Bloodthirster - so let's say he's got a TB of 10 and armour on his head of 8. Double to 16, add TB, 26 points of damage reduction. The Bloodthirster's SB burns through a lot of that, but that leaves final damage at 1d10-5. This means an absolute max of 5 damage. Which is stupid - a Bloodthirster should be able to slice his way through a Marine with anything from a butter-knife to his axe.

With OW/BC rules, it deals 1d10+SB Pen 0 Primitive (7) damage, -18. Thats 1d10+3 damage. Max of 10, which is still quite low, but much more sensible.

I think we're done here.

You know, in that particular case, I think it's entirely plausible for the rock to shatter against the space marine's armour. In the same way as no matter how strong you are, you are not going to open a safe with a wooden baseball bat.

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Doesn't the Bloodthirster have Unarmed Master? It should.

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In the next adventure I run I think I'll have a booby trap filled with kittens that have the improved natural weapon trait.

To the OP, which we've diverged quite a bit on and I actually intended to answer: it's my experience that Assault Marines clean house in hand to hand. Starting off day one perhaps the Librarian or Tech Marine can be equally skilled in melee, but after a few adventures and a level or two the AMs, who have unrestricted access to nearly every hand to hand skill the game has to offer, will quickly stomp all over the other two. The Librarian will always be excellent versus single opponents due to the force sword abilities, but no one will beat the Assault Marine after he gets some signature wargear, a couple of dual wielding talents, and swift/lighnting attack.

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bogi_khaosa said:

Doesn't the Bloodthirster have Unarmed Master? It should.

I'm pretty sure that any self-respecting Bloodthirster has the Deadly Natural Weapons trait. Same end result as Unarmed Master, admittedly.

Either way, those abilities do nothing to influence the effect of improvised weapons.

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Charmander said:

In the next adventure I run I think I'll have a booby trap filled with kittens that have the improved natural weapon trait.

Be sure to give them Hammer Blow for added punch, representing the kittens striking together as one clenched, mewling fist.

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bogi_khaosa said:

Charmander said:

In the next adventure I run I think I'll have a booby trap filled with kittens that have the improved natural weapon trait.

Be sure to give them Hammer Blow for added punch, representing the kittens striking together as one clenched, mewling fist.

partido_risa.gif This imagry will keep me smiling all day, thank you.

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dont underrestimate the artificer talent and the relic you can add to some meele weapon that adds flame quality. Have your 4 attacks and set the buggers on fire every hit