1.) When evidence is sacrificed/discarded (based on plots, events, twilight cards, etc), does it go back in the box or back in the evidence supply (or does sacrificed evidence go somewhere different from discarded evidence)? Only reason I ask is because evidence tokens are supposed to be limited, so I thought it appropriate to actually put them back in the box to avoid them being shuffled right back in.

2.) When playing dark cards that add baggage to a players plot, are instructions like "Add one Betrayal or Rage " there so that the person playing the card can be nice and choose not to play baggage (since it usually says to choose one or the other), just using the dark card to allow themselves to light shift? Is it to differentiate from those that add baggage to each (and therefore add 2 baggage if it's one of the plots with both keywords)? Or are there light cards (I certainly haven't seen them all yet) that will allow the target to block one or the other type when it is played? And I'm assuming, when a choice is called for, that the player has the ability to examine the target's plot card and decide which to use.

Are you talking about sacrificing leads? I don't recall coming across situations that have you sacrifice evidence. I know I have removed evidence from supsects, but those I returned to the evidence pile.

Tsugo said:

Well, you can't really sacrifice a lead I don't think, since you don't discard the lead--even before you decide what you're going to do with it, the person to your right is supposed to place it elsewhere.

What I'm referring to is sacrificing evidence. A perfect example, taken verbatim from the start card for "The Krausey Case":

Louis gains one good baggage each time he follows up a lead and sacrifices the evidence from it .

bcwMD said:

That's what I was thinking you meant. I just had lead stuck in my head as the wording rather than evidence. When it says to sacrifice the evidence from a lead, you gain the benefit of doing so rather than getting to place evidence on a suspect or uncovering the conspiracy. The lead marker is then placed as normal.

So in Louis' case, if he followed up a document lead, that lead marker would be handed to the player to the right who would then place it in any section other than the one it came from or the one that player's character currently is. The person playing Louis then has the option to place a good baggage token on his plot card instead of adding evidence to a suspect or dealing with the conspiracy puzzle.

Tsugo said:

This is how I have interpreted this plot card. However, quite frankly the card is not as clear as it could have been - it could be inferred that he would need a seperate game effect that would allow him to sacrifice evidence in the first place (the term 'sacrifice' is not addressed by the rule book or by the card).

What it *should* have said is 'When Louis follows up a lead instead of placing the evidence on a suspect as normal he may instead choose to sacrifice the evidence and return it to the pool to gain 1 good baggage.'

mikelosaurus said:

Agreed. I would have loved to see that level of clarity.

We have played this differently. Louis take the evidence, look at it and then if he wishes put it to box and add one baggage (I dont know if caprice has something similar to this, I dont have the game here) or place it on a suspect.

In other thinking it is not sacrificing an evidence when you take no evidence from the pool. Android has strong story behind, so it means that louis find something, but destroy the evidence he found (or not telling anyone about if it was testimony evidence). The evidence still points to next lead thats why the lead is moved to another location....

Sounds better to us then "nothing was found but next lead is <somewhere>"

I sent this into Rules Questions. Hopefully we'll get an answer soon.

Rasiel and I are almost on the same page here--you're not sacrificing evidence unless you actually draw it first. The major question is what happens to this evidence--back to the pool, or back to the box?

bcwMD said:

The more I've thought about, the more I tend to be in agreement. The way we played it in the first game made sense at the time, and it just stuck. Several cards have you spending favors, while others have you sacrifice them. In either case, I agree, you must possess the favor before you can spend/sacrifice it. So in the case of sacrificing evidence, you have to draw it first, then decide if you are going to sacrifice it. However, if spending a favor means returning it to the pool, then does sacrifice mean return to box?

After going through the rulebook, page 12 of the manual lists the important terms. This is what it says about Sacrifice:

When something is SACRIFICED , it is discarded without its normal effect taking place. A given item may only be sacrificed towards one effect.

So the quandary is not the word sacrificed, but what it means to discard. Many things are discarded in the game, but after re-reading the rules, some things are definitely recycled back into play, while other, though not clearly spelled out, are not.

For example, the first citing of the word discarded is in reference to leads during the climax. On page 15 of the rulebook it says that during the climax, the last 2 days of the game, leads that are followed up are not moved, but are removed from the game map and returned to the box.

However, later it goes on to say that you can discard twilight cards for various reasons (to reduce your hand size, to pay the cost of other twilight cards, etc). Discarded twilight cards are placed face up at the bottom of their respective stacks, which are reshuffled if emptied. So obviously in this case, discard does not mean remove from game.

It also mentions that puzzle pieces from the conspiracy can be sacrificed. This can be by player choice or if there is no legal spot to play the piece. In either case, does this mean that the discarded puzzle piece is simply placed at the bottom of the stack or removed from the game?

Plot cards and baggage are also discarded. The rules state that when the crossroad card comes into play, the start card is discarded along with all the baggage on it. It makes sense that the crossroad card is removed from the game since they will not be playing the same plot over again. However, if you were to return discarded baggage tokens to the box, there is a chance that the pool would run out, especially in a five player game.

It also mentioned that strong and weak evidence against a suspect is discarded when identifying the murderer. It doesn't really matter in this case, since the game is over.

Now to further confuses things, on Raymond's Old Flame plot card, it states that Raymond gains one good baggage for every 2 Time he sacrifices. I guess this could be interpreted as return to box. Although time is not a tangible object within the game, if those 2 time are spent on nothing, they are gone forever.