Just played my fifth game last night - and had my fifth loss against Passage through Mirkwood, the starter scenario. Can't imagine the bloodbath I'll face against later scenarios.

Here's my deck. It's modeled on other decks that have been described here as being well-built to win against this scenario.

Heroes

• Éowyn CS 7
• Dúnhere CS 9
• Bifur KHD 2

Deck

2x Northern Tracker (CS 45)
2x The Galadhrim's Greeting (CS 46)
2x Strength of Will (CS 47)
2x Hasty Stroke (CS 48)
2x A Test of Will (CS 50)
3x Stand and Fight (CS 51)
1x Dwarven Tomb (CS 53)
1x Fortune or Fate (CS 54)
2x The Favor of the Lady (CS 55)
2x Power in the Earth (CS 56)
1x Unexpected Courage (CS 57)
1x • Henamarth Riversong (CS 60)
3x Lore of Imladris (CS 63)
2x Lórien's Wealth (CS 64)
2x Secret Paths (CS 66)
2x Forest Snare (CS 69)
2x Protector of Lórien (CS 70)
2x Self Preservation (CS 72)
3x • Gandalf (CS 73)
3x A Burning Brand (SOM 33)
2x Escort from Edoras (SOM 55)
2x Ancient Mathom (SOM 56)
3x West Road Traveller (SOM 121)
3x Mirkwood Runner (SOM 123)

Last night, didn't help that Caught in the Web came out on the first round(!). I'll be adding Miner of the Iron Hills to the deck next time I play.

Almost every time I play, though, it ends up about the same. Some time near the end, I have a couple of copies of Dol Guldur Beastmaster in the staging area along with Ungoliant's Spawn who I'm trying to kill off to win. Combination of cards may be different, but I usually have 9-10 points worth of threat in the staging area. I usually only have a couple of allies out and almost everyone has to be questing otherwise threat will go up unacceptably and everyone will engage and then it's death in a couple of rounds. Dunhere helps, but his 1-2 points of damage per round takes a long time to clear enemies out of the staging area.

Admittedly I'm horribly unlucky at cards (on a good poker night, I may get three pairs over a four-hour session) but I never get many allies coming out of the deck. Is there something else I'm doing wrong? When Gandalf comes out, I ususally use him to reduce threat early on. Should I be holding off on most actions as long as possible to try to get more allies into play?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. A few more games like this and I'll be ready to put the whole mess on eBay. Thanks.

It sound like you already have an inkling for what the answer is: I think you need more allies. Other cards can do some cool tricks, but when it comes down to it, your core actions are questing, defending, and attacking. Those are things that allies can do that most other cards generally cannot.

EDIT: If I were you, I'd lose Strider's Path, Lore of Imladris, Lorien's Wealth, and Protector of Lorien. That last one is only good if you have good card draw, but card draw won't do you much good if you don't have many allies. Ancient Mathom is okay because it only costs 1 resource. I'm surprised you don't have Northern Trackers in your deck. You can get one out in two turns and they are excellent for clearing locations while also having decent attack. Also add some cheap 2-cost allies and see how that changes things.

I agree with Buggernaut. Here's soem additional advice:

1) if you try to build a deck against a scenario, you should think what each chosen card shall do for you. Don't take a card just because it sounds like it's powerful, but think about its usefulness for this scenario.

Example: Protector of Lórien. Powerful card, but as Buggernaut said, relatively useless when you don't have cards in your hands.

2) A card might be cool, but some cards need some extra stuff to work. So you should always ask yourself. "Does this card fit into my strategy?"

Example: you have 3 copies of Burning Brand, but they can only be attached to Bifur. And Bifur is needed for questing. You also have already "Hasty Stroke", that means 10 percent of your cards only handle shadow effects. Either you drop Burning Brand or you include some Ererbor Record Keepers.

3) When you build a deck, you have to use synergy effects. You have Dunhere, but no stuff to increase his ATT value. That's why he sucks so horribly in your games. Replace him with Frodo, and you have 2 points more WP and/or a decent defender.

Other advice:

Discard Lore of Imladris and take Daughter of the Nimrodel or Warden of Healers instead.

Discard Fortune or Fate.

Discard Strength of Will and Power of the Earth. That's loaction exploration overkill. Add Erebor Hammersmith and Miner of the Iron Hills instead.

Add Longbeard Mapmaker. That guy is a quest monster, and Bifur's ability (and some Songs of Wisdom) helps you gathering enough lore resources to feed him. He can also take the one or the other hitpoint (from Dol Guldur Orcs, for example).

great advice above - i would like to know your card pool- what packs are you working with?

i think the main thing as already stated is allies. at least 50% should be allies, and perhaps 25/25% event/attatchement, but some players will disagree

also are you using mulligans? it can really help you get a decent set up hand

rich

richsabre said:

50 percent is a bit too much. Glaurung built a strong deck which relied mainly on attachments. Once you get used to that you can get very good results. In my current dwarf deck are 22 allies, but then dwarf decks require tons of allies.

leptokurt said:

yes you are perhaps correct, though i think it depends on the deck you are building. my spirit and lore decks tend to be ally short, wheras tactics and leadership tend to get close to the 50%

Thanks all for the help. I'll look at these suggestions on my next deck. Keep it coming!

Richsabre, I have one copy of the core set, one copy of each pack in Mirkwood, and one copy of Khazad-Dum.

Thanks again!

my opinion is, and this applies especially so to solo play, that your deck needs to revolve around 1 thing primarily- questing. fighting and healing have to come 2nd. so with that in mind my advice is building a deck around 1 specific willpower machine- examples of which are steward of gondor, lore heros and longbeard map maker, or alternatively bilbo, beravor and protector of lorien.

once these are in place find what compliments the decided questing machine, usually i pick couple of mirkwood runners and forest snares for killing and a burning brand or two for defending, coupled with unexpected courage/fast hitch.

this way (contradicting my last posts) you dont need all that many allies, just the support ones to keep the staging area from getting oer crowded. You wont need to worry about what allies to put for questing as with the combos stated you can get into 10+ willpower per turn fairly easily and fairly early on. this frees up your other allly slots and a couple of heros to clean out the staging area.

ive always said that solo play (which is what i exclusively play) is a balancing act- your deck needs to do so much, but i still hold that it needs to be centered on questing and willpower- how you achieve this is up to you.

lastly i would say (if you are keen enough on the game) buy a few dwarrowdelf cycle packs- the cards in these packs are very powerful, especially the last two packs -long dark and foundations of stone

rich

I played 3 games on octgn with your deck. It was hard but I won all three of them. In stage 3, I had to defeat the **** spider every time.

So it is doable but you need some luck. If you manage to get out a burning brand and some healing ( self preservation ) on bifur it helps a lot.

Hey all. I've been tweaking my deck based on all your suggestions. Want to look at things a bit more, then will post the new deck for your comments.

I have a couple of questions for you, though.

Leptokurt, I don't quite get trading Dunhere for Frodo. Dunhere is my only real attacker. If he goes and Frodo stays, I don't have anyone who can attack. Dunhere can at least put 3 attack points into the staging area. Frodo doesn't seem to add that much, particularly if I have Eowyn with the Favor of the Lady. You also mention that I have nothing to add ATT to Dunhere. I've looked through the cards and don't see anything that can do that. Am I overlooking a card? Finally, you say Bifur is needed for questing but I've usually ended up using him for defense with his 2 defense points. Again, is there something I'm overlooking?

Muemkan, what is octgn? Is there a program I can use to play the game without the physical cards? That would be cool.

Thanks all - will post next attempt in a day or so.

OCTGN ist a platform to play boardgames or cardgames online. I use to try my decks there to see if they work before I make them with my cards.
Another one is LACKEYCCG where you can also play LotR. The lackey version was created by a guy you may see in this forum. Lackey also works on a mac.

By the way, played your deck against all scenarios except Dol Guldur, Flight form moria, Redhorn and Rhosgobel. Won every one of those games except Return to Mirkwood. So it seems if you don´t get the worst opening its quite doable.

just to test something

Paralt said:

With that kind of card pool, there are all sorts of decks you can build to beat this scenario!

As for increasing Dunhere's attack, there really isn't anything in Spirit or Lore. You'd have to dig into either Tactics (Dwarven Axe) or Leadership (Dunedain Mark). If you go Leadership, you can also get Celebrian's Stone which costs just as much as Favor of the Lady, but adds +2 Will instead of +1.

What if you tried Bifur, Frodo, and Dunhere instead of Eowyn? Frodo gives two less Will in the beginning, but if you throw in some Fast Hitches, he can quest AND attack. And if you have Willpower boosters like Favor of the Lady, they can go on Frodo too. Even though I've been advocating more allies, Fast Hitch is an exception because for one resource you're getting one extra use of a hero.

My mind's just brimming with things you could do to make a winning deck for this scenario, but I think part of the fun is figuring things out on your own (although you seemed pretty frustrated and beyond that stage). Considering that muemakan was able to win with your deck as posted, I think that half of your problem is how your play your deck, not just how you build it. Have you been able to beat this scenario yet?

my winning dwarf deck, that can walk many of the quests, is dain - bifur- thalin…i think they are all in your card pool?

is so give them a go- dain is a must have for dwarf decks (ok i dont like the term 'must have' in deck building, but dain is pretty close)

alot of people love eowyn, personally i dont think she's great, there are much better combos out there, especially with steward gondor, bifur, longbear map maker (again i think in your pool?)…..the good thing is map maker hasnt been FAQ-D so you can boost his willpower up to very large amounts

rich

richsabre said:

Funny, mine tend to be flipped. In fact, my Dain-Bifur-Dwalin deck tends to run closer to 60% allies (around 30 allies in the deck or so). But you're spot on, it really depends on the deck and what you're doing with it. I run a lot of green and blue allies with their various abilities, then fill in with events, and a few attachments. I'm not a huge attachement user (but I don't run a lot of Leadership-Tactics decks, either, soooo)….

Budgernaut said:

I've been wondering that also. I try to play situationally, with what seems to be the best move at that moment with what is on the board. I try to keep the staging area as clear as possible and make sure that I am racking up prgress points against the quest as quickly as possible. I try to protect my heroes since it seems that things start to go downhill quickly if you lose one.

Should I be allowing some judicious buildup in the staging area early on if it may allow me to get more cards (specifically allies) out on the board so that I have them there later on in the game? Are there other techniques and tactics I should be experimenting with?

I'll probably post my next build on Saturday. I'll be interested to see what you gurus have to say about that one!

Paralt said:

i always play to keep the staging area clear as possible, but i dont mind sacrificing an ally or two, or getting some damage on a hero, if it means getting rid of a bad enemy

even if you cant kill it you could always snare it. also it goes without saying travel to locations as much as possible, even the 1 threat ones build up

i dont think you should ever allow build up, it wont allow you to play more cards, unless you are playing beravor or something like that

i think one of the best skills to learn in this game is when to exhuast and commit, and when to keep ready. this is where cards that peek at the encounter deck really come in useful. even if you dont have them you can still work out what to do- if there are no enemies currently in play then it is a safe bet that you are only going to end up with max 1 enemy after the staging step (unless you get surge…which is a pain).

so then you can think, should i play a low cost ally as a shield, so i can commit all my other characters to the quest? that way if the revealed card is a location, you have enough committed willpower to deal with it, or if its an enemy, you have a defender to take the attack. get an unexpected courage or fast hitch on a hero, and then you have yourself an attacker and quester.

the main way forward is of course questing- all else comes second. therefore i think the key thing to do is 'free up' your questers. as ive said you cant do this if you need them ready to defend as undefended attacks will swiftly kill your heros, so you need to put in place some ways to get them ready.

so you can either do the ally shield as ive said, or put the unexpected courage or fast hitch (if hobbits) on them so they can do both.

as ive said before- its all about balancing your group out and knowing when to commit, and when and who to keep ready. if i had to chose i would say thay letting locations build up is a more dangerous strategy than letting enemies build up. you can clear enemies with sneak attacking a longbeard orc slayer or gandalf, but when you have 3 x 3 threat locations and you can max commit 7 willpower- its pretty much game over

hope this helps

rich

Well, here's my new build. Let me know what you think. If this doesn't work out, I'll try some of the new hero combinations people have suggested. Thanks for any and all replies.

Heroes

• Éowyn CS 7
• Dúnhere CS 9
• Bifur KHD 2

Deck

2x Northern Tracker (CS 45)
2x The Galadhrim's Greeting (CS 46)
2x Strength of Will (CS 47)
2x Hasty Stroke (CS 48)
2x A Test of Will (CS 50)
3x Stand and Fight (CS 51)
1x Dwarven Tomb (CS 53)
2x The Favor of the Lady (CS 55)
1x Unexpected Courage (CS 57)
3x Daughter of the Nimrodel (CS 58)
2x Erebor Hammersmith (CS 59)
1x • Henamarth Riversong (CS 60)
2x Miner of the Iron Hills (CS 61)
1x Lórien's Wealth (CS 64)
1x Secret Paths (CS 66)
2x Forest Snare (CS 69)
2x Self Preservation (CS 72)
3x • Gandalf (CS 73)
2x Longbeard Map-Maker (SOM 32)
1x A Burning Brand (SOM 33)
1x Song of Wisdom (SOM 34)
2x Escort from Edoras (SOM 55)
2x Ancient Mathom (SOM 56)
1x • Haldir of Lórien (SOM 57)
3x West Road Traveller (SOM 121)
3x Mirkwood Runner (SOM 123)
1x • Arwen Undómiel (DWA 58)

I just tried your deck out. Lost the first game, but won the second. I think your deck works well. There are some cards I would replace with others, but that's just personal taste. The one change I did make was adding a second copy of A Burning Brand since I don't have Arwen. I beat the second game in 8 rounds with a final threat of 14. I felt that starting with The Galadhrim's Greetings was very important for this deck so you can get some use of Dúnhere before you have a chance to get allies out.

How is it working for you?

Hey hey! Played my sixth and seventh game and finally won one!

Sixth game was a disaster. Caught in a Web came out again on the first round for a second game in a row! The second Caught in a Web came out on the third round. I cleared one because I had Miner of the Iron Hills in my deck this time, but never could get ahead and all heroes died by the eighth round.

Seventh game I won with 190 points - not great compared to the community, but at least I won. Felt like the deck played well, although it seems like luck is absolutely a factor in any individual game played. If cards come off the player or encounter deck in an unfavorable sequence, seems like it can be really hard to win.

I'll try again a couple of more times though and see if it's working any better. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Without changing your hero lineup or overall deck design, there are a few tweaks I'd suggest. Since you have a way to discard additional copies of unique cards (via Eowyn), I'd recommend 2x or even 3x Arwen. She's extremely good, and you want to maximize your chances of drawing her early. I'd also up Ancient Mathom to a full three copies. Cheap card draw is awesome; get as much of it as you can. You don't have many solid defensive characters, so you might want to take a look at Silvan Tracker. He heals every turn, so he's great at soaking up attacks from Forest Spiders, Dol Guldur Orcs, and the like. Secret Paths, Lorien's Wealth, and Strength of Will are all things I'd put on the chopping block if you're thinking about replacing cards.

Good luck

Ok, so here is a better organized overview over your deck:

Spirit:

2x Northern Tracker (CS 45)
2x The Galadhrim's Greeting (CS 46)
2x Strength of Will (CS 47)
2x Hasty Stroke (CS 48)
2x A Test of Will (CS 50)
3x Stand and Fight (CS 51)
1x Dwarven Tomb (CS 53)
2x The Favor of the Lady (CS 55)
1x Unexpected Courage (CS 57)
2x Escort from Edoras (SOM 55)
2x Ancient Mathom (SOM 56)
3x West Road Traveller (SOM 121)
1x • Arwen Undómiel (DWA 58)

Lore:

3x Daughter of the Nimrodel (CS 58)
2x Erebor Hammersmith (CS 59)
1x • Henamarth Riversong (CS 60)
2x Miner of the Iron Hills (CS 61)
1x Lórien's Wealth (CS 64)
1x Secret Paths (CS 66)
2x Forest Snare (CS 69)
2x Self Preservation (CS 72)
2x Longbeard Map-Maker (SOM 32)
1x A Burning Brand (SOM 33)
1x • Haldir of Lórien (SOM 57)
3x Mirkwood Runner (SOM 123)

Neutral:

3x • Gandalf (CS 73)
1x Song of Wisdom (SOM 34)

Italized cards are those I would not use. Starhawk already gave you some good advice (the only thing I don't agree wth is Secret Paths, as it is a nice counter against "Brown Lands" - I'd rather take two copies). Hasty Stroke becomes obsolete as you already have BB doing the job.

If you can run both Arwen and Burnig Brand Bifur becomes a solid defender. Hence you should run three copies of both. Self Preservation is a good card, but you already have DotN. Also, once you have the Arwen/BB combo out, you shouldn't get too much damage anymore. I prefer Warden of Healers to DotN in scenarios in which Necromancer's Reach is part of the encounter deck.

Add another Mapmaker, as he is the guy that will carry you through stage 2.

If you follow my advice you can drop twelve cards and you replace them with three coies of Warden of Healers, two more copies of both Arwen and BB, one more copy of Mapmaker and perhaps one more copy of Secret Paths. Gives you room to add three more cards. I'd take "Elrond's Counsel" which is a nice card to lower your threat level once you have Arwen in play. Or you take Eomund to boost your WP a bit more.

I don't have much to add in these already been told,in fact all guys are much more experienced than me, but instead of Dunhere and Bifur, you could try Fronto and Glorfindel! I know it raises signifficantly your starting threat but I think it's worth it because Glor can either commit or attack while Fronto can defend with no worry! If you manage to lower your threat with Gandalf or Galladrims you will be OK and also an UC would look really nice on Glorfindel!

I do not know what others think about that but I have many times switched heroes with low threat such as Bifur or Denethor for Glorfindel and I finally think it is worth it.

ruchlas said:

Well, I took the hero combo as a given. Including the new Glorfindel is a good idea (as a replacement for Éowyn), but then you also have to include Light of Valinor etc. In fact Glorfindel's low starting threat matches perfectly with Dunhere's ability.

So yeah, I played your suggested combo a lot, but it requires a different deck. The current deck, however, isn't too bad. The biggest problem seems to me to defeat the troll, especially if Haldir is not in play. Perhaps some copies of Elfhelm might help here.

I think he means the old Glorfindel.