I have a question regarding the targeter wargear on page 135, which is stated as reducing all penalties on ranged attacks by one step.

Say that, for example, I am firing an autogun using full auto (-10), at a target in fog (-20), who is in combat with an ally (-20) and I'm fatigued (-10). This imposes a cumulative penalty of -60 to my ballistic skill test.

Does the targeter reduce the cumulative penalty of -60, to -50, or does it reduce each individual penalty by 10, meaning that the final penalty is only -20 (-10 for the fog, and -10 for the nearby ally)?

Thaddux said:

That's a really good question, after re-reading the item descriptions I'm forced to say… I have no idea. I think the wording needs to be cleared up, because the 'all' could mean "every individual penalty" or "every time you make a BS test, regardless of the context." Good catch.

I would say that that your first instinct is correct, Thaddux. Your overall Ballistic Skill Test Difficulty to spray the bad guy that's beating on your buddy while in a fog and you're tired is Hellish (-60). The Targeter takes this down one step to merely Punishing (-50). It does not break down the Ballistic Skill Test Difficulty into its component difficulties and reduce each by one step. The Test Difficulty is your cumulative total. As a big fan of snipers, the Targeter is a great piece of gear, don't get me wrong. It ain't THAT good, however…. My advice? Make sure you tell your buddy to duck first, and maybe recite the Litany of Accuracy a few times prior to pulling the trigger…..

In all things Beta-ish, however, clarification from Above wouldn't hurt….

Modifiers are always all added together before finding the final total, so yea, it'd just be 1 stage reduction for the whole modifier, taking it from -60 to -50.

That is the most likely case. I would say that the other option would be quite a smart piece if wargear though, if it's rarity were ramped up somewhat (probably a nice bit of tech for a Vindicare).

In any case, the wording on this needs to be much clearer, and an explanation from a FFG official would make me very happy.

Considering it's only Rare, it's probably meant to give a +10 in total.

Next question: Does it apply to a shot where the total modifier is positive? For example, making a single shot (+10) at long range (-10) after having aimed for a half action (+10)? There are penalties, but they're outweighed by the bonuses.

we play it like this:

the targeter negates one -10

so aiming with full auto is +10. (-10 full auto +10 targeter +10 aim).

and aiming with semi burst is +10 (0 from burst, 0 from targeter +10 aim).

Although it does say reduces penalties I would probably have it reduce the difficulty of the shot one step period so +10 becomes +20, wording definatley needs cleaning up though.

that would be the same as a red dot laser sight.

combining those two would give a steady +20 BS.

A bit steep imho.

btw how far does a red dot work?

Well red dot is only in effect with single shots so it wouldn't be a stead +20BS if your going to be using your gun on semi/full auto or for supressing fire.

I would have thought that something that employs multiple cogitators to improve accuracy, would do more than reduce a single penalty by 10. Also, shouldn't this thing count as a sight?

Also, shouldn't this thing count as a sight?

The fact that it doesn't is kind of the point. Combine it with a scope for a really good sniper weapon, put it on something with a red-dot for extremely good single shots,…

I just count it as +10BS. It solves all the problems that way.

Frankie said:

This is a bad idea. It makes the Targeter much more powerful than it is supposed to be for it's Availability bracket.

I don't really understand this discussion, you are creating problems where there aren't any. The Targeter is simple, it makes hard things easier but doesn't affect easy things.

DJSunhammer said:

Exactly, but how many 'hard things'?

Wow, that sounded more NSFW than I meant it to…

?

How many hard things can there be? Maybe I should have been more clear. The rules as written are fine. The targetter makes shots with a penalty easier. It doesn't make already easy shots, or ones with some kind of bonus, any better.

DJSunhammer said:

Scroll up to my first post. That's the point of this thread. I know it doesn't provide a bonus to easy shots. But does it work on the overall penalty, or on each individual penalty?

Only on the grand total of penalties…

Santiago said:

Aye, since every previous example of an item/skill/power/etc that has deducted from a penalty has deducted from the total, not from each individual penalty.

I'm just not seeing the issue - it reads fine to me.

MILLANDSON said:

Could you cite some examples?

Well…

If range would give you a -10 penalty and the fog would give you another -20 penalty that would total for a -30 penalty.
A targeter would reduce that to -20

-10 + -20 = -30
The targeter would reduce that by 10
So -20

Clear?

I assume Thaddux was asking for examples of other items/powers/whatever that reduce penalties instead of providing bonuses.

Cifer said:

I was, thank you.

A little thread-necro never hurt anyone, right?

Did we ever get a ruling on this?

It seems strange that firing full auto on short range gains no help from this gear, but once you move further away it suddenly kicks in.