I seem to be having a VERY hard time with the "social" aspects of the game. What I find, in my inexperience and lack of skill, are the players and I quickly dissolving the "social" cards and winding up in pure story mode.

any suggestions as to:

1. Keep the room to room wandering ( Eye for an Eye btw) from getting into that " new room> observation check, >new room>observation check, new room>observation check etc. mode ???

2. I have rank 1 PCs that only have 1 or 2 "social" cards, how do I keep them "using" their "social" actions, maneuvers, stance adjustment etc. …. I find the combat side of things easy to control, but it seems to fall into story only mode with an exception here and an exception there when it comes to investigating the lodge and the grounds,….

Any help would be greatly appreciated,…

Thanks,………

1.
Use Lord Achaffenberg to push them into investigating more. if they're not making progress, or doesn't seem interested in exploring, have him call for them and ask how the investigation is going and how they're thinking about proceeding. He is paying them to do a job after all, so he's fully in his right to try to hurry them on.

Use him to make it feel more urgent, and if necessary have him drop a hint or two to the players on where to look for clues. "I overheard some of the servants talking about something going down in the kitchen, but I can't very well go into the kitchen, I'm a noble after all!" or "I heard that Franz (or whatever his name was) lost his blunderbuss, you should look into that. He's in the stables.").

2.
Well, when playing the social aspects you don't have to use social action cards all the time. Initially I found it a lot easier to explain what my NPC's did/said in third person rather than acting it out. It's easier to control what the players learn and it's easier to prepare for. It's also a lot easier to insert pauses like "he walks over to the window and looks out over the grounds", which buys you time to think about what to say next and these pauses also give the players an oppurtunity to jump in with questions etc.

Many players also do this and describe what their character does instead of acting it and it's a great way to run social/investigative roleplay and it's much easier to get a hang of than acting everything out in social situations.

When using social action cards or skill checks I recommend that you instruct your players to explain/roleplay the social situation, and then play an action card or use a skill check at the end of it to see how well it goes. That way you get a sense of what the player want to accomplish in the social situation and have time to prepare a response depending on how well/badly the player succeeds/fails the subsequent check.

Example:
Player: "I want to find out if the servant is involved in the evil plot at the manor by tricking him into saying to much." [a guile check is rolled and succeeds]
GM: "The servant let's slip that he doesn't know anything about sacrifices in the cellar, even though you never mentioned sacrifices or the cellar"

It's not only your responsibility to get a flow in the social aspects of the game, talk to the players and agree on how to run the social bits. It's often easier if everyone has agreed on how to handle it, especially if it's a new group or a new gm.

Good luck.

Solutions:

Get into character and DO NOT ROLL DICE until it's the right moment. Only add the "social action cards" IF the skill check is relevant, not the other way around. Practice letting the players do a lot of inimportant things without rolls and still give them answers. When the time comes, then drop the "skill check" on them.

Player: [looking at the drawing of locations on your battlemat and list of NPC's] We're headed to the kennels.

GM: Ok, Johann the Gravedigger, you walk over to check out the kennels. All of the dogs start barking and the somewhat houndsy-looking man, Kennelmaster Hundeliebhaber say's, "How can I help you?" [GM in character]

Player: I want to ask him what he thinks of the beastmen. Can I make a roll?

GM: "No roll necessary ." IN CHARACTER, "Yes, the Beastmen, well, they sure are scary..but thankfully the dogs like their flesh, so I feed them the meat."

Player: Uh..guys, i think he just said he feeds beastmen meat to the dogs. I want to ask him if ….

GM: "Stop. Tell me the exact words you would ask him, in character."

Player: Uh, ok. "Mr Hundeliebhaber, are you telling me you feed the meat of chaos beasts to the dogs here?"

GM: "Yes. Is this not how they do things where you are from?"

Player: Ok, I ask him why?

GM..stays in character until the player's do the same..

Next: When the characters are going to discover something too early, just change the scenario. The painting? Yea, the player has a "glimpse of a strange shadow off to the side of the painting..oh, it turns out it was just a spider..what an odd painting…you could swear that it was of a man on a horse before in the dining room..are they moving paintings in the house? IMPLY MISDIRECTION

Another solution is to say, "WHEN SUDDENLY, the dogs ouit in the courtyard begin making a rukus!" - Essentially shift their attentions elsewhere for a moment. GUARANTEED players noses will turn to the dogs in the courtyard, just as Sauron's eye turned from the ring towards the armies of Men at the black gate.

Lastly, if they don't ask specifics, tell them, "TEll me exactly what you do."

Player: I taste the food and try to assess if it is poisoned.

GM: Ok, are you being secretive, or not really? Do you have any skill at that? No? Ok, well, let's start with a 4 difficulty check for nature lore first, then if you want to do it stealthy, add a couple more blacks. Its not impossible, but you just don't really have any idea what you're doing.

ANOTHER SITUATION:

Player: I want to ask the cook why everyone is so drugged up.

GM: "Tell me exactly how to ask that question, in character."

Player: LOUDLY, "WHY IS EVERYONE SO DRUGGED UP?"

GM: No roll necessary. The cook frightfully calls the Steward and tells him that you are harassing him and he needs to work.

Player: Can't I make a roll?

GM: What kind of roll?

Player: To intimidate the cook.

GM: You intimidated the cook, no roll necessary, and he calls for help. Is there something else, perhaps more subtle you'd like to try? He seems annoyed that you are harassing him.

Player: I'm not harassing him.

GM: The cook seems to think so. What else would you like to try?

Player: I want to find the basement to this place and search around down there.

GM: Where would you like to start looking? Or, would you like to ask some staff (or perhaps the cook [jokingly])

Player: Is there a maid or something walking around.

GM: "Oui! Madame Jeneaux at your service. How may I help you? You know, you really should not harass the cook that way, no? He cooks the food. If the cook is angry, the food is angry no? How may I help you?" Madame Jeneaux is a very attractive maid who looks you over and smiles.

Player (distracted, of course by his primal desires and lack of satisfactory social life): "Uh Madame Jeneaux. Uhm.."

GM (interrupting to keep the player off-base): "She smiles at you again." "Yes? " She says. She looks impatient and is losing interest.

Player: Stop interrupting me. I didn't get to talk to the girl! I ask her where the uh, basement is. Can I use my FLIRT social action card?

GM: YES, this is an excellent time to make that check.

GM: She' s just about to answer, WHEN SUDDENLY, THERE'S A RUCKUS IN THE FRONT COURTYARD. THE DOGS ARE BARKING LIKE CRAZY, and the dog-keeper seems to be coming out carrying another Beastman carcass to feed to the dogs, but one dog seems interested in something else… What would you like to do?

..

One thing to keep in mind is that whilst every character starts with any array of Basic combat action cards to use no one starts with any social actions (expect maybe 'Perform a Stunt'). Therefore whilst you can partially handle social encounters in a similar way to combat you have to be a bit more flexible. What I do is I assume that everyone has a pack of unwritten basic social cards. These run off social skill checks and allow any character to attempt to achieve a certain social goal (charm, seduction, or whatever).

To encourage players to purchase and use social actions cards I limit the effect of basic 'cardless' actions. I don't want to undermine the choices of players who have brought social cards by allowing others to achieve the same effect without them (inthe same way I would allow a player to duplicate the effects of a combat action card without buying it).

Like everyone I would recommend roleplaying encounters when you can and using dice rolling as the resolution mechanic. You can use their roleplaying to add fortne dice to the roll in the same way that you would add them into combat for a player coming up with a good tactic. However I will add a warning. In a roleplaying game you should be able to play someone that can do things that you could not. If character wants to play a charming face man but in real life is incapable to stringing a sentence together then you should try not to penalize them. In these circumstances you have to let the dice do the talking.

Good point on the limitation. The cards "flirt" and "bribe" come to mind though where a character can do such a thing, but not necessarily in a greater way than an untrained person.

I guess the same argument could be made for two weapon wielding. Sure, you can wield 2 weapons, but since there's a card, you suck at it until you get the card and won't do any more damage, or get any extra attacks until you get said card.

..but flirt, and bribe seem a little odd for that limitation IMHO.

jh

Thanks sooo much for your responses,…

They have ALL helped a great deal. After having read the suggestions I realized, I think, what I was doing wrong. I don't think I was "making" the PC tell me what it was he/she was trying to accomplish in the social interaction. In other words,.. I was roleplaying, they were roleplaying and it just kept going until I felt like there was nothing left to talk about,.. NOW,.. I can do my best to make the PC state what it is they want to accomplish with the discussion and at the worst, flat out ask them, "what do you want to accomplish by talking to NPC". I would not have come up with this had it not been for all of your very good suggestions,… thanks again ,..

I have built a full scale replica of the manor and the grounds, and as the pc's were going from room to room it started to seem a little odd,.. NOT that it was dragging, but more a " ok,.. we are in a new room,.. ok,.. that was the GM's description of the room,.. ok,.. I want to do an observation check". Then the SAME sequence would start all over again when the pc's would enter the next room. My soulution to this is two-fold,.. 1. Spread the wandering servants out more,.. maybe one in each room,.. and 2. Insist the the PC's tell me what they want to acomplish by talking to this NPC,… Will post back after next session to report how it went,…..

Hi there,

I would also like to thank everybody for the good suggestions. I have been GM for more than 10 years now and these tips were certainly still valuable. You said that you had built a scale model of the mansion. I have noticed in my games that the more detailed you lay out a scene the more tactical their frame of mind. Detailing out the mansion was probably valuated by your group but the more tactical remarks come as a natural side effect I'm afraid.

So if you want to keep their imagination flowing and them thinking in less tactical terms I would suggest sticking to mere descriptions. If you want to entertain a group that needs a tactical challenge using their skills cards then do lay out the plans in more details. You will get a different type of game just check which one is the better for your group. And of course switching from one to the other is the most entertaining experience for everyone.

Good luck,

Jo

It is counterintuitive in this game, but while a general map of areas is good for the GM, I rarely, if ever, give players a map. This game focuses more on "settings" than "dungeons" and as such I think the imagination and roleplaying flows more freely when characters move scene to scene in their heads via the narrative, rather than focuses on tokens on a grid, which is inevitable once you take out the battlemat you happen to have lying around for other games.

Although this is just mindless promotion of something I have absolutely no stake in:

Go to http://www.gamemastering.info and read this guy's eBook. At least the chapters 14, 15, 16.

It sort of rehashes what Emirikol already said, but goes very much in detail. His sections of Judge/Actor/Camera helped me see a bit more clearly as well on this topic. He has a decidedly different outlook on the game than most Warhammer GMs I would say (for one, he doesn't make his players suffer nearly enough > ) but he has very, very good points.

Although this is just mindless promotion of something I have absolutely no stake in:

Go to http://www.gamemastering.info and read this guy's eBook. At least the chapters 14, 15, 16.

It sort of rehashes what Emirikol already said, but goes very much in detail. His sections of Judge/Actor/Camera helped me see a bit more clearly as well on this topic. He has a decidedly different outlook on the game than most Warhammer GMs I would say (for one, he doesn't make his players suffer nearly enough > ) but he has very, very good points.