Ok the problem is that I am making a Devastator wich has a heavy bolter mounted to his right arm, and this kid asked if he could get a second heavy bolter mounted on the other arm and what strength would be needed to carry two heavy bolters and use them normaly. Any ideas?

Um, no. Not happening. How the heck did he get a heavy bolter mounted on his arm anyway? Heavy bolters, like all heavy weapons, are specifically two-handed weapons unless you're in Terminator armor, and you can't use the HB in TD armor anyway.

You are solidly in the realm of house rules at this point.

I wouldn't allow it in power armour even with house rules. Having Strength 100 doesn't mean you can effectively wield a Browning in one hand. Termie or bust, and it'd require special couplings since the HB isn't a Termie weapon.

Arm mounting is only for pistols, or auxilary grenade launchers.

I know the wording can be misused by unscrupulous individuals to try and argue "only melta pistols" blah blah blah. Thats munchkining and wrong, pure and simple. Whenever the rules guys ever get around to answering this specific question I've sent them there will be no room for argument, so don't embarass yourself now, just accept it.

Besides that rediculousness, this is going to be caps just for emphasis - you have been warned, THERE IS NO ABILITY OF ANY TYPE OR WARGEAR OPTION THAT ALLOWS A SPACE MARINE TO HOLD, USE, OR FIRE A HEAVY WEAPON WITH A SINGLE HAND. So even "IF" arm mounting did say "any weapon you may fire in one hand" instead of pistols only, there is still no way a heavy weapon can legally be arm mounted. Heavy weapons normally require bracing to fire effectively (how a normal human must shoot them), space marines have bulging biceps which lets them fire without bracing, but heavy weapons are still 2 handed weapons. Power armor allows BASIC weapons to be fired one-handed without penalty, but NOT heavy weapons.

This, of course, isn't even considering the utter redonkulousness (military term, meaning more rediculous than rediculous) of arm mounting or one-handing a heavy bolter. Its just plain stupid sounding, isn't supported anywhere in any 40k background (though Ward may get around to it next SM codex…), and beggers any kind of belief from common sense.

Arguably, BA could get arm mounted Bolters as a relic - Angelus Bolters. Not really part of the conversation, but I thought it was worth throwing in. I'll shut up now.

though the angelus bolters range puts it more into the realm of a arm mounted pistol with special ammo..infact before we got rules for them I was going to arm mount a bolt pistol with selector and kraken rounds, it would have been very close.

professor_kylan said:

Angelus Bolters are statted in First Founding.

So I'm led to uunderstand. Which is odd, cause I've somehow managed to look straight past them while reading it. As I'm not near my copy of the book right now, are they listed as basic or pistols?

They're basic. Similar stats to a bolter, but reduced range in exchange for better penetration and the arm mounting.

Gaire said:

In which case I'll balance out the looking like an idiot for not knowing a rule with the vindication of being right about the rule that I didn't know about! Huzzah!

Thankyou, I will tell him

Fluff-wise, you're probably looking at a unique or near-unique relic.

herichimo said:

1) That's not a military term.

2) Servitors can have an entire arm replaced by a cybernetic heavy weapon mount. It could be possible to have the other arm replaced by a cybernetic heavy weapon mount too. It could be possible - however unlikely and impractical - that a SM could mount a similar cybernetic.

3) Common sense has little place in WH40K.

HappyDaze said:

1) Yes it is, its just not an official one. Just like "So to speak," is a military phrase. Always remember, "The only thing you do when you assume is make an @ss of U before me."

2) Servitors aren't space marines, space marines don't have the options, doesn't fit anywhere in their training/doctrine, and would be a waste in universe when they can just carry one themselves. Oh look you shot down your own retort too, how nice.

3) Common sense has a place everywhere, even if its just common sense concerning the rules on limitations and options. Without such sense you can literally do anything, and in case you are too limited minded (you did use the "common sense slartibartfast!" argument) to understand, I mean ANYTHING: "I want to play a 13yr old girl care bear space marine Inquisitor associated with the chaos cult of Tau worship. I plan on requisitioning a Turbo-laser destructor for this mission so I can arm mount it on my forhead and I want to upgrade my combat blade to shoot grenades!"

'Nuff said.

Yeah fairly certain even an Iron Hand or Techmarine will get glared and/or laughed out of the Armoury when he suggests replacing an entire arm with a heavy bolter. If for no other reason than doing so would be a massive tactical pigeonhole.

professor_kylan said:

Grey Knights have a similar thing with their arm-mounted storm bolters.

The only time I'd consider allowing a heavy bolter to be fired one-armed (note: not one-handed) is during a heroic sacrifice where the marine in question has lost their other arm, braces the weapon against their chest and the damage the recoil is doing won't be an issue.

Wrist-mounted? That's just not going to happen. It's too ridiculous to me to entertain the notion.

Hm, I might entertain it if the Marine in question decided to sell his soul and become an Obliterator.

herichimo said:

GK Terminators can mount Psycannons or Incinerators on their wrist mounts, and still have enough range of motion to wield a pair of falchions. Of course, they do get their Tech Support straight from Mars itself. Given how much a big deal is made even of prepping the 'permitted' combinations - major ritual involving senior Tech Priests - making up a new Terminator mounting is non-trivial.

[Edit] Oops, forgot about the Iron Hands. First Founding, under Combat Doctrine, and how their bionics are generally too individualised for any squad benefit, but then goes onto mention the occassional exception. It mentions a Devastator squad, every member of which was equipped with bionics that permitted them to carry two heavy weapons in order to force a breach. It does, however, state that this was achieved as much by IH bloody mindedness as the bionics.

Plasmafest, where are you getting that Incinerators and Psycannons are wristmounted weapons? I'm looking at p132 of DH Daemon Hunter. It explictly states that the GK wear storm bolters wrist mounted and nothing of the sort for their other ranged weapons. The illustration on p126 shows a Purifier wielding an Incinerator two handed.

Decessor said:

That's with power armour; with Terminator armour they can carry heavy weapons one handed like regular Terminator armour, using Wrist Mounts for ease of close combat. See the TT models for further clarification.

[Edit] Also, keep in mind that the GK heavy weapons are usually equipped with anti-grav suspensors as standard, so it's not quite as ludicrous as it sounds.

Terminator heavy weapons are held in one hand, yes; but the wrist attachment is there to help support the large, unwieldy weapon. Wrist mounting allows use of a weapon in that hand. No terminator has a heavy weapon AND a hand weapon in the same hand.This holds true for the model range.

And the Heavy weapon suspensor was from the old Deathwatch Kill-Team, it went on the heavy bolter, and halved its range. It was not from the GK.

Fenrisnorth said:

I'll grant the model range is awkward in this respect - the GK Codex permits, certainly doesn't prohibit, Falchions + Psycannon, but the models themselves do require some conversion to properly show the combination. DH: Daemon Hunter does state that Psycannons have Suspensors as standard, and grants Auto-Stabilised as usual.

But, to return to the original topic: Dreadnoughts.

You win this round. When were we talking about Dreads?