am i the only one who consigned the fear rules of Deathwatch to udder heretical blasphamy!?!?!?!?! Know No Fear!!!!!!!

Did you even read the fear rules in Deathwatch?

Yes and its kinda thrown a rench in the whole chaplen thing not useing them but it just dosent feel right haveing a space marine tremble in fear at genesteler

im trying think of some ideas for a diffrent thing for the chaplen othe but in drawn a blank here

I think you might have been misled by the section that includes rules for fear, but don't actually apply to Space Marine characters.

Ill have to check

Fear reduces the cohesion of the Kill-Team, potentially to the point that it forces them out of squad mode and prevents them from using any abilities related to squad mode. It might also force a penalty on some actions, but that might be the Daemonic trait, and not to the Fear trait. Space Marines don't run in fear at the sight of the enemy.

You lose your nerve and faith in your brothers to the point were you break formation witch is not very displined or space marine like and somethig i would not look kindly upon as my kill teams chaplen thougt it is not as bad as perveusly belived.

maxximus said:

Ok… first, read the rules for Fear vs. Marines again. Then read the concept behind Deathwatch in the core book, with different marines of essentially different cultures all trying to work together as a cohesive fighting unit.

Marines have been known to fall back, only to regroup for another attack. Marines in Deathwatch don't fall back because of fear, but they CAN be uncertain of their companions. All fear affects is cohesion, the ability of the group to work together as a fighting force. In the face of an overwhelming monstrosity, (fear rating), will the battle-brothers work together as a team (make their roll to keep cohesion) or will they fight individually, because they can't fully trust one-another (lose cohesion)? They're gene-enhanced supersoldiers, not robots.

if thy dont break because of fear than whay is it called a FEAR RATING? thats the only thing that i still dont understand maby you can enlighten me. also it dosent mean there falling back if they break squad mode because there is a squad mode order for that. you cant use that when you are breaking formation.

maxximus said:

Oh, that's one's easy. Because Space Marines aren't the only PCs or NPCs in the 40k RPG line, and all of the books can be used with one-another without much trouble. Fear Rating is a universal rule, the rules in Deathwatch is really just how Marines are affected by it.

Why would it efftect SMs then?

The chart of crazy things like wetting yourself and running is for normal people.

Space marines are only slightly shaken by these things. Space marines get a penalty WP rolls or suffer cohesion damage.

Space marines are not completely fearless, they just handle it way better. Unless you have the 'Fearless' talent, then you are truly not afraid of anything.

the whole "and they shall know no fear" thing is what is drilled into them from day one. It's like any other military motto. It's what you tell yourself untill you actually have to face the monstrosity barreling toward you.

Example: My group had a group of Imperial Guardsmen with them. When some raveners sprang up from the ground in their midst, the normal humans panicked and ran. The space marines lost a point or two of cohesion, turned and killed the monsters.

maxximus said:

Also remember that by default DW games involve 3-6 different chapters in the same party. Marines don't fight like this normally. Say you're an Ultramarine. You always fight alongside Ultramarines. You live, breathe, and fight by the Codex. Now you are in the DW. On your team, there's a guy decked out in wolf fur who doesn't care about the Codex. There's a guy who sleeps in a big metal coffin plugged into some kind of blood-filtering device. There's a guy in a robe who just refuses to talk about anything he knows. There's a guy who prefers to fight by hiding in a tree and sniping like a scout. There's a guy whose chapter history goes blank if you look back more than 500 yeas. If that's not enough, the wolf pelt guy and the robe guy are constantly at each others' throats, the sneaky guy is filming it, and the other two are arguing if jump infantry assaults are inherently better than tank charges. And you think at least 3 of these Gus are heathens for their approach to chapter organization, because Codex Über Alles.

These people are WEIRD but you have to fight alongside them as Brothers. You deal with interpersonal issues that would never arise in one Company of Ultramarines. And you have to make it work.

Hence when a big scary nasty thing appears you don't know if they'll have your back. You know another Ultramarine would, but these guys, you have no clue. Hence a Cohesion Test as you don't know if you can trust these SMs like you would your "real" brothers.

Kshatriya said:

Excellent summary Kshatriya!

Brillant summary and it completly makes sense and answers every question i had. Thanks for the help

Glad you enjoyed, and glad I could help!

maxximus said:

Why would it efftect SMs then?

Also remember that by default DW games involve 3-6 different chapters in the same party. Marines don't fight like this normally. Say you're an Ultramarine. You always fight alongside Ultramarines. You live, breathe, and fight by the Codex. Now you are in the DW. On your team, there's a guy decked out in wolf fur who doesn't care about the Codex. There's a guy who sleeps in a big metal coffin plugged into some kind of blood-filtering device. There's a guy in a robe who just refuses to talk about anything he knows. There's a guy who prefers to fight by hiding in a tree and sniping like a scout. There's a guy whose chapter history goes blank if you look back more than 500 yeas. If that's not enough, the wolf pelt guy and the robe guy are constantly at each others' throats, the sneaky guy is filming it, and the other two are arguing if jump infantry assaults are inherently better than tank charges. And you think at least 3 of these Gus are heathens for their approach to chapter organization, because Codex Über Alles.

These people are WEIRD but you have to fight alongside them as Brothers. You deal with interpersonal issues that would never arise in one Company of Ultramarines. And you have to make it work.

Hence when a big scary nasty thing appears you don't know if they'll have your back. You know another Ultramarine would, but these guys, you have no clue. Hence a Cohesion Test as you don't know if you can trust these SMs like you would your "real" brothers.

Should had be the FIRST Corebook page

allofmyemprah

I think the 'Know No Fear' rules suck- an automatic penalty when facing anything with a Fear Rating? Even though mere mortals have a chance of overcoming it and suffering no penalties at all?! Blech ...

I House Rule that Space Marines take a normal Fear Test; if they fail , they get the -10 penalty (instead of the normal effects of Fear), and if they pass they experience no penalty at all- just like mortals.

Isn't the difference though, when a marine fails it they get a slight bit of jitters or it distracts their focus but when a human fails it they have a chance to die of shock? At least they don't get that!

I think the 'Know No Fear' rules suck- an automatic penalty when facing anything with a Fear Rating? Even though mere mortals have a chance of overcoming it and suffering no penalties at all?! Blech ...

I House Rule that Space Marines take a normal Fear Test; if they fail , they get the -10 penalty (instead of the normal effects of Fear), and if they pass they experience no penalty at all- just like mortals.

Read the line before "And They Shall Know No Fear..."

If the PC passes this test, then he may continue

to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear.

The rules in Deathwatch are very generous to the player characters. Space Marines break and fall back due to loss of morale even in the TT, they just regroup automatically due to their indoctrination, which kind of turns the whole thing into a "tactical retreat due to a momentary fear-induced lapse in judgement".

They're not robots - if they'd be entirely devoid of any emotion you wouldn't still have Marines fall to Chaos right up to M41, such as the traitors of the Space Wolf strike cruiser "Wolf of Fenris", who turned on their brothers to save their own hides when it became evident that Huron's boarders would be victorious.

And it is perhaps worth pointing out that it's called "and they shall know no fear", not "and they know no fear".

As with all things in 40k, though, such details are a matter of interpretation and personal preferences, so FFG's version is certainly just as valid. I just find it fascinating how the original fluff of the Marines' inventors seems to be so much less popular with the players.

Well conflict from GW and FFG can be a problem during the game, so we use the FFG rules

plus, I've always been a fan of the 40k setting, but lacking money and companions to play the tabletap I only got the chance to get my hands on the RPGs so I don't know any of the TT rules

Isn't the difference though, when a marine fails it they get a slight bit of jitters or it distracts their focus but when a human fails it they have a chance to die of shock? At least they don't get that!

-But Marines don't take a test in the rules as presented, they just get an automatic penalty. Yeah, it's good that they don't suffer from normal Fear effects, but it irritates me that they have no chance to overcome it completely like mortals potentially can.

Read the line before "And They Shall Know No Fear..."

If the PC passes this test, then he may continue

to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear.

EDIT: The Quote function is screwing up; this is ME talking:

I don't have the rulebook handy, but isn't that a Copy/Paste line from an earlier WH40KRP game, that is referring in this context to non -Space Marne characters?

No, it's a copy-paste from DW corebook

SM characteres MUST test fear when they face a creature with a Fear Rating.

ANOTHER FORUM, ANOTHER VICTORY, MY NAME SHALL DEVOUR EVERY QUOTATION