COCLCG said:

Then, If a am playing Initiate of Huang Hun with a Snow Graves over opponent's discard… his character don't go to his hand?

No. The returned character doesn't hit the discard pile first, it goes straight to hand, so don't worry about that one. The only real relevance this question has is to Relics, because they have the 'when leaves play shuffle into deck' text, and the characters Constricting Elder Thing and Lodge Housekeeper, which may try and return them to hand.

When an action reads "put into play from your hand" do I have to pay the costs of that specific card?

Thanks!

Mnemonaut said:

Please note that this thread is supposed to be used to post official answers anyone received from FFG and not to ask rule questions.

browsing the forums I came up to this rule answer:

Rule Question:
What is the proper timing for Prophesy cards?
E.g. Hastur's Hamu XX 15:14 says:
"Response: After a character is made insane, discard Hamu XX 15:14 from the top of your deck to choose up to two cards in your discard pile. Add those cards to your hand."
Can I choose the Prophesy card just triggered as one of the cards to be added to my hand from the discard pile?

Answer:
Yes. You pay the cost of the card and then choose its targets.

Now I am a bit puzzled: this answer doesn't really fit the current action framework from the current faq.

a) Determine the cost (to either playthe card or pay for the card’s effect) or costs (if multiple costs are necessary for the intended action).
b) Check play restrictions, including verification and designation of applicable targets or cards to be effected.
c) Apply any penalties to the cost(s). (Any effects that modify a penalty are applied to that penalty before it becomes a part of the cost.)
d) Apply any other active modifiers (including reducers) to the cost(s).
e) Pay the cost(s).
f) Play the card, or trigger the effect, and proceed to step two.

Now, Hamu XX in order to be able to target itself need to be in the discard pile during b. During b however Hamu is still sitting on the player's deck since it can get into the discard pile only during phase e) Thus I'd rather say that by current framework it is not possible to have Hamu XX target itself.

Am I right?

If I am, care if I post the updated answer?

Thank you for your time.

Answer:

As far as my understanding goes, yes you are correct. As always Damon might correct me. But I would say that I am fairly confident on this one.

Seeing as this topic is dedicated to answers straight from Damon Stone, one can only presume that apparently the answer you quoted (the one posted by Jhaelen) WAS the official ruling made by him.

COCLCG said:

Feel free to attempt to get an official verification (or clarification). I felt the ruling was a bit odd myself, but then I'm regularly surprised by official rulings

Lo and behold, just as I was complaining of not having received answers for a long time, I received two replies to questions asked over two months ago:

Rule Questions:
1) Is it possible for the defending player to succeed at a story?

2) If a card copies another card's text or effect and the text includes self-references (i.e. the card's title) is it replaced by the card's title that is copying the effect?

Examples for affected cards: Richard Upton Pickman and Neil's Curiosity Shop.

Answers :

#1 is just part of the definition in the rulebook. "After the four icon struggles, the active player determines if he has been successful at the story." I guess I always took that one as pretty evident.

#2 I think is a case of the card does what it says. If it copied the text box AND the title, then it would have to say that. Otherwise, if it only says that it copies the text box then that's all it copies.

dboeren said:

Note also that only the active player may place a success token for being successful at a story.

This is semantically equivalent to the following sentence:

Note also that the defending player may not place a success token for being successful at a story.

If the defending player cannot succeed at a story period, the sentence wouldn't be required and is in fact slightly misleading.

Regarding #2 I never assumed that the title was copied. My assumption was that any occurence of the card's title in the text box is basically a reference to the card's title, i.e. equivalent to the text saying 'this card'. In other words I expected the reference to the card's title to adjust if the card's title changed for any reason.

But apparently card titles are simply part of the text and not actually references. And that confuses the hell out of me because the FAQ speaks about self-referential cards:

A card that is self-referential (that is, has card text that refers to itself by Title) refers only to itself, and not to any other copies of that card.

Since we just found out that card titles in the text box are not in fact references, how can they cause the card to be self-referential?

It's probably the software-engineer in me that causes me to question these things that make perfect sense to anyone else.

Some answers from FFG / Damon Stone I got today.

1) Lucas Tetlow: May I also take control of a support with a play requirement, e.g. "Attach to X" like Infernal Obsession? If yes, may I make a new selection for X (and e.g. take control of my opponent's character with his own Infernal Obsession)?

Yes, but all play restrictions must be met.

2) If yes to 1), what happens if I can't fulfill "attach to X"? (E.g. Prize Pistol and me not playing Agency). Does the effect fizzle, or is the support discarded, or may I not even trigger Tetlow's effect at all?

You must be able to meet the play restrictions of the card to trigger Lucas Tetlow.

3) Expert Testimony: May an already exhausted character be committed with Expert Testimony?
(I think yes, because of the Cats of Ulthar fragment in FAQ… but official clarification would be good.)

Yes, a card effect that commits a character requires no special states or costs other than those stated on the card. Exhausting is required only if the card says or if a character is committed to a story by the game rules.

4) Expert Testimony: May an already committed character be committed to another story? If yes, what happens with its former story, is the character uncommitted from that story and committed to the new one? Or is he committed to 2 stories simultaneously?

Characters cannot be committed to more than a single story at a time. Something that commits a character that is already committed will uncommit it and commit it to the new story. Note: Expert Testimony cannot be used to commit a character to a story they are already committed to.

5) Ipiutak: The costs of a to-be-copied-effect do not have to be paid by me again, right? Now what happens if the cost is variable (e.g. my opponent discards X=2 cards from his hand to play Unbound and destroys one of my characters, is the effect copied with X=2, or with X=0, or may not be copied at all?)

It is copied with x=0.

6) Are struggle booster icons also icons? (E.g. Does Glaaki remove Whitton Greene's investigation booster icon? And does The Hall School allow me to add a investigation booster icon to each of my characters?)

No. Icon boosters are icon boosters, a completely different thing.

Rule Question:Assuming I've managed to attach a card to 'Forgotten Shoggoth' by temporarily blanking its text box, what happens to the attachment after the text box is no longer blanked?

Answer:

They are discarded. Cannot is absolute.

Q: If a Prophecy is face-up on the deck not via its Action but via cards like Prism of the Many Views, may its Response be triggered?

A: No.

Hello all,

Some issues of timing came up in my last game. Even though we checked the latest FAQ, it still did not answer our question sufficiently. I'm very sorry if similar timing questions have already been asked - it's hard to track down what I'm looking for in this forum without reading every single post.

Here are two similar scenarios:

---

Scenario 1:

It is Kevin's turn and he activates his Blood Magician's power (Action: Pay 1 to choose a character. Until the end of the phase, that character gains or loses an icon of your choice.) .

Natalie responds by activating her Slavering Gug's power (Action: Pay 4 to choose and wound a character.) targeting Kevin's Blood Magician.

Does Kevin's Blood Magician die? Does the Blood Magician's effect still get through?

---

Scenario 2:

It is Kevin's turn and he activates his Slavering Gug's power to target Natalie's own Slavering Gug.

Natalie responds by activating her Slavering Gug's power, targeting Kevin's Slavering Gug.

Who lives? Who dies? Should Natalie have been able to respond with that Action in the first place? Help.

---

Thank you so much for your help in advance. It'll make my gaming sessions smoother.

Saint7,

The mistake you are making is you can't respond to an action with an action. There is no 'stack' like in other card games. Each player takes turns performing actions. They are each resolved before the next player can use one.

So, in your first example, if it is Kevin's turn he gets to go first and perform an action. He uses Blood Magician's ability. His target gains or loses an icon until the end of the phase, period. Unless Natalie has a 'disrupt' the action goes through and is resolved. Now that the action is resolved, a 'response' or 'forced response' to that action may be played. In your example there are none, so it is now Natalie's turn to play an action.

Natalie's uses her Gug's action and wounds the Blood Magician. If Kevin has no disrupt ability, he dies. Now they can play a 'response' or 'forced response' to the Gug's ability, if they have one.

At this point the Blood Magician's ability already was completely resolved before he died, so his ability lasts until the end of the phase.

Hopefully that makes sense - if it does - you should be able to see the answer for scenario 2.

If it's Kevin's turn, he gets to go first and use an action. He uses his Gug, and wounds Natalie's own Gug. Unless she has a disrupt ability to save it, it takes a wound and dies. Next, it is Natalie's turn. Her Gug is dead and she can't use the ability.

Hopefully I explained that well enough. The timing structure is a little more complicated than that, but it is a simple overview.

3) PERFORMANCE ARTIST

Q: Can I sacrifice Performance Artist to cancel ... cards that aren't in play, such as Rampaging Dark Young's ability?

A: No ... Rampaging Dark Young's text can only be triggered after it is placed in the discard pile (versus when it leaves play) so it's a card effect not a character ability in game terms. It is a rather fine point, so I understand the confusion. I'd simplify it if I could, but it is part of the base rules of the game.

Is a Character card not a character when it's in an out of play state? (If so, that means you couldn't cancel the sneak attack of Black Dog with Performance Artist either, as Black Dog would be out of play - in hand - when the Disrupt opportunity presents.) Or does this ruling relate to something else?

If anyone could point me to the "base rules" that Damon is referring to, I'd appreciate it, because I can't find anything of the sort!?

Is a Character card not a character when it's in an out of play state? (If so, that means you couldn't cancel the sneak attack of Black Dog with Performance Artist either, as Black Dog would be out of play - in hand - when the Disrupt opportunity presents.) Or does this ruling relate to something else?

If anyone could point me to the "base rules" that Damon is referring to, I'd appreciate it, because I can't find anything of the sort!?

Yes, that's correct. You'll find the first hint in the rule book on page 13:

A triggered ability is any triggered effect caused by a card already in play.

In other words: a triggered effect caused by a card that is not in play (such as Black Dog) is not a triggered ability. Since Performance Artist explicitly refers to support or character abilities, you cannot use it against such triggered effects.

It's easy to overlook and I only learned about it when a discussion about the Dreamland Messenger came up.

A quick few questions please?

Q1. Can a character use his actions when exhausted or insane?

Q2. Do their active effects cease when the are exhausted or insane?

Q3. Can you sacrifice some one who is insane?

Q4. If a character A's ability are effecting character B's icon or abilities and character A is driven insane, what happens to character B's altered abilities?

I am thinking of a specific incident where one character (A) being in play gives another character (B)+1 toughness. So character B takes a wound and that is fine because he has that +1 toughness. If Character A is then driven insane, or even exhausted does character B loose his +1 toughness and immediately drop dead due to having a wound token on him?

This happened to me when I had a bunch of Mi-go's in play and one of them was generating the toughness for all of the other, that one was then driven insane.

Cheers

Q1: Insane, no. A character is considered to have a blank text box when insane, so they have no abilities. Exhausted, yes unless the cost of the action is to exhaust the character.

Q2: Exhausted, no unless the card says otherwise (for example Prepared Alienist). Insane, yes since their text box is considered blank.

Q3: It depends on the effect. If the effect just says 'sacrifice a character' then yes you can sac an insane character. If it says something like 'sacrifice a cthulhu character' then no - because insane characters also are considered to have no faction affiliation while insane.

From the rulebook: "Insane characters have the following statistics: 0-cost, 0-skill, no faction, no icons, no traits, and no text. An insane character cannot commit to a story and is never considered to be committed to a story. "

Q4: Based on the above, you can see that when the Mi-Go providing toughness goes insane, it is considered to have no text. Because of that, all your other Mi-Go lose the toughness bonus. At this point, any that have wounds on them are destroyed.

Q1: Insane, no. A character is considered to have a blank text box when insane, so they have no abilities. Exhausted, yes unless the cost of the action is to exhaust the character.

Q2: Exhausted, no unless the card says otherwise (for example Prepared Alienist). Insane, yes since their text box is considered blank.

Q3: It depends on the effect. If the effect just says 'sacrifice a character' then yes you can sac an insane character. If it says something like 'sacrifice a cthulhu character' then no - because insane characters also are considered to have no faction affiliation while insane.

From the rulebook: "Insane characters have the following statistics: 0-cost, 0-skill, no faction, no icons, no traits, and no text. An insane character cannot commit to a story and is never considered to be committed to a story. "

Q4: Based on the above, you can see that when the Mi-Go providing toughness goes insane, it is considered to have no text. Because of that, all your other Mi-Go lose the toughness bonus. At this point, any that have wounds on them are destroyed.

Thanks for the help, that clears everything up for me. Fast response too!

I'd like to remind everyone that this thread was meant to collect official answers, not ask rule questions. Please create new threads for the latter, thank you!

3) PERFORMANCE ARTIST

Q: Can I sacrifice Performance Artist to cancel ... cards that aren't in play, such as Rampaging Dark Young's ability?

A: No ... Rampaging Dark Young's text can only be triggered after it is placed in the discard pile (versus when it leaves play) so it's a card effect not a character ability in game terms. It is a rather fine point, so I understand the confusion. I'd simplify it if I could, but it is part of the base rules of the game.

Woah, this answer blows my mind...

Is a Character card not a character when it's in an out of play state? (If so, that means you couldn't cancel the sneak attack of Black Dog with Performance Artist either, as Black Dog would be out of play - in hand - when the Disrupt opportunity presents.) Or does this ruling relate to something else?

If anyone could point me to the "base rules" that Damon is referring to, I'd appreciate it, because I can't find anything of the sort!?

Yes, that's correct. You'll find the first hint in the rule book on page 13:

A triggered ability is any triggered effect caused by a card already in play.

In other words: a triggered effect caused by a card that is not in play (such as Black Dog) is not a triggered ability. Since Performance Artist explicitly refers to support or character abilities, you cannot use it against such triggered effects.

It's easy to overlook and I only learned about it when a discussion about the Dreamland Messenger came up.

Ah. 'Character ability.' I was focused on the word 'character', but I should have been focused on the word 'ability'...

Here's additional clarification that I requested and received back from Damon on the matter:

Q: I've stumbled across a previous response you gave to another question, which I'm hoping you can clarify for me, as per discussion at http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/64358-youve-got-questions-ive-got-answers-straight-from-damon-stone/page-4#entry815837

Is a character not a character (i.e. is a character ability not a character ability) when it is in an out-of-play state? And for characters in play, is a character's passive effect (which is not a triggered effect) or Forced Response (which is a game triggered effect, as opposed to Response and Disrupt which are player triggered effects) still a character ability?

A: Character has nothing to do with it. As stated as the first response in that thread, a card ability is an effect on a card triggered in play. Since the card is not triggered in play it is not a card ability but a card effect.

So a character is always a character (and my mind is no longer blown), but a character's triggered effects are only considered triggered abilities when in play.

Thanks for the assist, jhaelen.

Something else that Damon answered for me:

NUG

Q: How should Nug's (Seekers of Knowledge F49) Forced Response be handled?

"Forced Response: After you play Nug from your hand, attach 1 card from the top of your deck to each of your domains as a resource."

If I have three domains, is it:

a) Draw three cards, look at them, then resource one to each domain of my choosing?

b) Draw one card, look at it, then resource it to a domain of my choosing; then repeat two more times until each domain has been allocated a resource?

c) Nominate a domain, draw one card then resource it to the chosen domain; then repeat two more times until each domain has been allocated a resource?

A: b.

Another answer from Damon:

Nikola Tesla-- "Forced Response: After you trigger an effect from your discard pile, put a success token on Nikola Tesla.

Disrupt: When Nikola Tesla would be destroyed, move all success tokens on him to any number of revealed story cards"

The Festival-- "Action: Exhaust The Festival and sacrifice a resource to search your deck for a card and attach it to a drained domain as a resource. Shuffle your deck.

Action: Attach The Festival to a domain as a resource (Limit 1 per turn.) This effect can only be triggered from your discard pile."

Snow Graves-- "Attach to a player's discard pile.

Cards cannot be moved out of attached discard pile for any reason."

Q: Referencing the following cards, if Player 1 has Nikola Tesla in play and The Festival in discard, with Snow Graves attached to that discard pile, what happens when attempting to use The Festival's secondary action? The Festival cannot leave the discard pile due to Snow Graves, but does this fail in step 1b) 'Action is initiated - Check play restrictions' and so the action cannot trigger, or does this trigger (including invoking Nikola Tesla's Forced Response and using up the Limit 1 per turn) but then fail in step 3) Action is executed?

A: The action cannot be triggered since it cannot be resolved.

Question:

I have the card Station Eismitte in play. My opponent has the card Cthulhu and all my characters are Explorer and Scientist. If my opponent uses his Cthulhu's action, should I sacrifice a character?
And if instead of Cthulhu has Cthylla, what would happen?

Answer from Damon Stone:

Nothing happens. The owner is not able to choose/target them. If there are no legal targets to be chosen the effect cannot be triggered at all. Also those effects cannot resolve on a character who is immune to character abilities so even if targeting was allowed they still could not be resolved on.