Hey guys,

I was wondering if any GM's could offer some advice on how to handle a situation that has happened to my group of PC's. In "The Gathering Storm"...

*SPOILERS ALERT* (sorry, I'm new to these forums. is there a "hide" or something?)

...the party went up against Izka and friends at the lightning stone / herdstone and lost badly. Every member of the party was knocked unconscious. Amazingly, none of them died from excessive criticals and I didn't even pull any rolls or fudge results. Now I know this is Warhammer roleplay and there are going to be some GM's who say "just let them die and roll new characters", okay I hear you. That's one way to handle it. I'm looking for some other, maybe more creative, suggestions. I'm sure there could be some great ideas out there. They have met Foaldeath but don't have a clue he's a beatsman. They just thought he was a creepy hooded swamp shaman. I have had the thought the PC's could be tied up and Foaldeath could free them. The PC's actually dealt some significant wounds to Izka, I think 12 out of 18, so Foaldeath could potentially finish him off and free the PC's, but what would the rest of the herd think about that? Would they be too swept up in fighting for a new Wargor which could cover Foaldeath freeing the PC's?

I'd love to hear any other ideas GM's might have.

Also, seems like a pretty cool community here. I've been lurking for a bit and this is my first post.

Thanks!

Stash 'em in a clearing well away from the herdstone (ie in the larder) and let one of the lesser beastmen sneak in to 'play' with. Either Foaldeath can come by and kill the other beast, or (my favoured response) let the players improvise something to cut their bonds - I guarantee they will. Then they'll have to take on the baby beastie unarmed, and some of them may well die, but, well, 'Grim and Perilous' is actually another name for 'dead and smelly'. Go for it

Brutishdog said:

My advice is to analize how this situation happened (the wipe).

Was it due to a poor /stupid choose of actions by the PC's? or more due to a bad balancing of the encounter by the GM (too many or too tough adversaries for the party) together with some bad rolling?

In the first case, I would just wipe the party, specially if the group is an experienced group. They should know.

In the second case, I will just make them wake up in some beastmen campment, and allow them to try to escape, may be helped by the hooded guy or any other NPC's they have met before.

I'm with Yepesnopes.

That is a potentially tough encounter. WFRP groups can vary wildly in their ability to go toe to toe with Izka-types. if the group hasn't realized the potential dangers of the Old World etc., I think it's a GM's responsibility to really emphasize the danger here. So there is potential, particularly with a newer group, for "uninformed player error".

That said, if players just made bad choices they have to live with those - this is not "being vengeful, rules for sake of rules" etc. it's for the fun - if the game has training wheels on it from the GM that can devalue accomplishments and lessen the sense of risk. I find in the long run, it's more fun when you let bad consequences fall. The test is "does the rest of the table agree"?

It's your choice whether that means "start new characters" or "well, you all have a critical wound because you fell unconscious, you were thrown in a dirty cave (hmm Disease check anyone if you have those rules) next to a Profane Site (hmmm, corruption check anyone if you have those rules) and then let them try to escape from there. A fight while another beastman challenges Izka (demonstrate some beastman behaviour) is a good noisy thing that occupies lots of beastman attention for a bit.

You can also houserule no advance for the session where everyone fell.

Myself I would go this way because it's usually more interesting to keep same characters and it's always more fun to beat up PC's than to kill them.

valvorik said:

I am in agreement with Valvorik, until the no advance.

If it is the GM at fault for making the encounter to difficult, then the players should not be penalized. However, if the players were at fault (and you decide to keep them alive) then it is an issue of learning from error. Often times we learn more from failure then even from success...

I appreciate the responses and they have got me thinking.

But first a little info if you are interested. The wipe was partially the party's fault, partially mine. I made all the Ungors full strength instead of henchmen, because I always thought the idea of henchmen were lame. Now, I see they were exactly what this encounter needed: cannon fodder the party could quickly take out. It's just usually the party utterly destroys every group of adversaries I throw at them so I have been unable to gauge what they could really take on. The skull "threat" rating for monsters doesn't really seem to mean anything. However, it was also partly the party's fault. Foaldeath told them to concentrate on killing Izka so the herd would turn on itself. Instead of doing that, they took on two of the other beastmen groups. They did finally engage him and he took massive damage, but by then, it was too late.

So my idea is to let one of the PC's die.

They will all be revived to just consciousness, by the shaman, so they can witness the carnage of each other being sacrificed. When the first PC is led up to the herdstone by Foaldeath, I'm going to let Izka do his worst. I think the other PC's will get a bit scared at that point. During the ensuing rally cries and distraction of the beastmen to the bloodlust, Foaldeath will make his move. And in that ensuing chaos, the remaining PC's can make their escape... just barely. I haven't decided if they should be able to make off with the lightning stone or not. If they don't, what does that do to the story?

And about not giving advances... I understand what you guys are saying. However, the whole point of roleplaying is for fun. We all had a blast in the encounter. I think the PC's actually did fairly good jobs roleplaying their characters. They just weren't tactical enough and I made an overpowered encounter. I still want the (remaining) PC's to be able to progress. I certainly don't want the players getting so disappointed they don't want to play anymore. I've actually slightly hinted at death to the one PC because he hasn't been that excited about the character he originally rolled and he was accepting of the possible outcome of the party wipe. I haven't let on any more than that, because I think this could probably turn out to be a very memorable experience for all of us and definitely keep the "grim and perilous" in the WFRP. Now, if only I can think of something darkly humorous Izka could say...

>I must learn... from the pain.<

Perhaps Foaldeath can whisper to the PCs as he secretly cuts their bonds that the ONLY way to escape is for them to take out the already wounded Wargor. That'll meet them outside the clearing with the stone while the infighting starts.

If you're going to kill off a player character, that player will need a new character. Have that character show up and save the day. This will also make an instant explenation for why the new character is friends with the group and make him much easier to introduce as a new party member.