I know that units being carried inside a vehicle cannot use skills or take actions. But does it not even get an activation where it either does nothing or chooses to step out of the vehicle? The rules say that "The unit cannot be activated except to exit the vehicle" , but I distinctly remember reading an official description somewhere of a carried unit "passing" his turn. Am I nuts or anybody knows where I saw this?

Point being, do you lose an activation (which is strategically quite important) while the unit is being carried?

You don't lose the activation, when you activate the unit choose to to stay or choose to exit. I saw it in a letter from FFG but can't find the a link atm.

I would have thought that if you can't activate a unit unless its to exit the vehicle, then you can't activate it to do nothing as its not exiting the vehicle.

Loop, you`ve probably seen it in the recent FAQ:

Q: One of my units is riding in a transport
and I don’t want to have it disembark yet.
Do I still have to activate it?

A: Yes. A unit that is embarked on a transport must still be
activated. It may choose to pass on its actions, but its activation
must still take place.

YES! Thanks, that's exactly what I remember reading. So the FAQ completely contradicts the Cerberus rules that stated the carried unit only activated when disembarking. Well, I suppose the FAQ is the more up to date, and the example there is crystal clear, while the Cerberus rules might just have been a bit incomplete.

After playing with the heavies for the first time tonight (great fun) I have another couple of related questions:

- A unit will start the game inside the walker. In the first round, can it make its activation (essentially a "pass") before the walker makes its activation and enters the board?

- Can a unit enter and exit a walker in the same activation? Use one Move to enter the walker on one side, then another Move to exit the walker on the other? Don't really see anything in the rules preventing it.

- Also, just playing the loophole master here, nothing in the rules say that you can only board a friendly walker. So technically, enemy troops could find shelter inside your heavy walker and there would be nothing you could do to evict them or kill them. Of course I'm joking, but a really anal player could still make that case.

Loophole Master said:

To the first question I don't see why you wouldn't be able to pass the activation, just means that unit can not do anything else during that round.

To answer the second question yes a unit can enter and exit in the same activation, just remember that Move 2 units or units with fast can actually enter and exit in the same move action because it only requires a move space to enter and exit, not a move action, so you can enter and exit and still attack or move with your second action. In are games we have used this before to help cover some ground a little quicker with move 2 units.

smith2332 said:

Yeah, I had thought about including that into my original question, but to me it seems this is going a bit too far. It's one thing to use the rules in your favour, another to exploit it. The rules say thatto board the vehicle, the unit has to "spend one movement point during a MOVE action" , and to exit it "requires a MOVE action. It costs one movement point to exit". So entering requires a Move and exiting requires a Move. You could make the case that those can be the same Move action, but I'd lean towards them being necessarily independent.

Loophole Master said:

I don't think this is exploiting any thing, its how its exactly worded? Entering or exiting the vehicle just has to be part of a move action, never once does it state it has to be separate Move actions, never once does it say it cant be the same move action. Thats something your putting in that is not their because you feel this is unfair. Ok i agree with you that the wording should most likely be changed in a later FAQ most likely but to say its using the rules in your favour when thats exactly how the rules are worded seems funny to me..... In other words if you don't like the wording its and exploit?

Its clear as day to enter and exit has to be part of a Move action and only requires a movement point to do so....

Yes I agree, nothing in the rules prevents such a thing. But likewise, nothing in the rules prevents an enemy squad from boarding your vehicle and nesting there. At some point common sense has to surpass what's written in the rules. You wouldn't begrudge a player for boarding and exiting a vehicle in a single Move, but would you be just as lenient to someone who simply walked inside your tank?

Think its all a bit cheesy gaining an extra square of movement by using a mech as a bridge myself, so no, no entering and exiting in the same turn. Definately not the intent of the rule even if its a bit unclear.

I agree it's cheesy, I think this warrants an official answer.

Loophole Master said:

Your talking about a completely separate issue now and has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Plus your example is completely null in void by the basic rule that you cant share a space or move through a space with an enemy unit occupying it, so no you could never enter my walker and stay inside it since you would be sharing the same space as me. Not really an issue in my mind and completely off topic... I digress....

smith2332 said:

It's not a completely separate issue, I had mentioned this in the same post that your originally replied to. It's just two related cases where the rules are not thorough enough, leaving space for potentially silly exploits. My example is not completely null and void, since the basic rules also say a squad can't share a space with a friendly tank. The "Carry Capacity" skill obviously supercedes the basic rules.

Loophole Master said:

OMG you obviously are missing the basics rules so let me put in bold for you.....

Units cannot enter a space occupied by an enemy unit.

This is basic 101 dust tactics where talking about here...

Your example is completely worthless and makes no sense and is off topic to what I was saying, bottom line if you don't like the wording then don't play with those rules, but as it stands right now there is nothing in the wording that says you cant enter and exit in the same move action. Again this could easily be taken care of with a later FAQ down the road.

Well, you obviously missed this sentence just under the one you quoted:

"A squad or a hero may pass through a friendly unit of any type, but it cannot end its move in the same space as another unit ."

The sentence above would make the Carry Capacity skill unusable, except for the fact that the skill itself supercedes the basic rules. Likewise, it supercedes your sentence about enemy units. Of course I'm not saying that walkers should be boardable by the enemy, all I'm saying that the rules themselves don't prevent it, just like they don't prevent entering and exiting a vehicle in a single activation.

And on a side note, take it easy buddy. I don't mean to fight you over this or anything, I'd just like to discuss these rules with other fans of the game.

Loophole Master said:

Ok i got that loud and clear, I know skills supercede basic rules, and yes I agree with you that this is about everyone who loves this game as a place to discuss and not fight over. This of course works both ways

Lets take your example of a skill superseding another basic rule, is there a skill ever in the game that allows you to move or share a space with an enemy unit? If the answer to this is no, then the basic rule that you can not pass through or share a space with an enemy unit is still in tact right?

So, that being said you could never enter my walker and have a picnic, or orgy, or wine tasting, or......

And yes that was a ploy to get a laugh

smith2332 said:

The answer is yes. The Jump skill allows you to move over a space with an enemy unit.

Loophole Master said:

Jumping over is not the same as moving through or sharing a space, in order to enter a vehicle you need to be able to share the space and move through the space it is occupying right? So I would say the answer is still no, am I wrong in that assumption?

Got an amazingly fast answer!

Rule Question:
Can a squad enter and exit a heavy walker on the same activation? Either enter with the first Move action and exit on the other side with the second Move action, or in case of a Move 2 unit, enter with the first movement point and exit with the second movement point of a single Move action?

The rules technically allow for a squad to enter and exit a heavy walker on the same activation. However, it is intended that a squad should be able to enter or exit a heavy walker only once per activation.

Bit of a vague answer. It clears the issue of entering and exiting on the same activation, but not quite makes it clear regarding doing it in a single Move 2 action. I'd say that if a unit was able to do it in a single action, then he'd be able to it more than once per activation, which is something that they don't allow. Therefore I conclude that it can't be done in a single action.

Common sense prevails

Loophole Master said:

I guess this answer does little to answer are question in my mind, very confusing. So basically he states yes you can do it with the first sentence, but follows it up with you can only do it once per Activation. So basically I can still do it but only do it once per round unless I use get your ass moving then I could enter and exit twice because its two separate activations?

Also I guess I could do it twice with a stimkit? Loophole maybe you could ask a follow up question to get more clearity on this. Just seems like his answer was yes you can do it but only do it once per round. In other words you couldn't enter, exit and then enter and exit again with two heavies side by side?

there is just too many what ifs still out there with this answer

Well, he says "only once per activation ", not round, so at least we're clear on that account. If you use a stim kit or Get Moving, you can enter and exit twice in the same round, once per activation. The important thing is that you can't enter and exit with a single action, as that would allow you to do it twice per activation.

And here's a follow-up question. Can a Move 1 squad enter diagonally and exit diagonally in the same round? By the rules, the second diagonal in an activation would cost 2 movement points, which would bring the total movement to 3, more than the squad can handle. But does exiting a walker diagonally really count as a diagonal? It's an adjacent square just like any other.

Loophole Master said:

I can't see any querry here as there is nothing stopping you moving diagonally for 1MP each actication and as said above you can't exit and leave in the same actication. Also diagonals are still adjacent and count as a diagonal for all moving and shooting purposes regarding the special rules concerning movement points.

Major Mishap said:

Actually, the official response I got from FFG just confirmed that you can indeed enter and exit once on the same activation. But I agree with you that second diagonal on the same activation will cost 2MP, no matter what. Still, entering and exiting a heavy walker can save you up to 2 movement points, whether you do it in a single activation or on separate rounds.

When you think about it, entering and exiting in the same activation doesn't really gain you any more advantage than entering at the end of one round and exiting at the beginning of the next. It's actually less of boost, since if you divide it into two rounds, you could wait until the vehicle had moved before exiting, thus gaining up to 5 free movement points.