Making away with an activation doesn't seem like something that follows the spirit of this game's rules.

As Loop said, if you pass with a unit it still counts as activated, activated to do nothing and in the case of the serum, activated to do nothing on its second activation. I think the criteria and intention of the rule is met, after all, logically if you are injected with anything, it will take effect whatever you do.

So the consensus seems to be that in this case the general rule on activation and passing supercedes this specific rule that when taken only from what is explicitly written in that rule. So to be correct for this ruling the FAQ should read either "this unit takes an extra activation this round" or better "this unit must take an extra activation this round". The word can implies that this is an optional activation. As I said I would go for making them activate and exhaust the RAW just seems to say otherwise when taken completely by just what the rules state.

Loophole Master-For the other part-Do you think it should be forced Sustained Reactive Fire or do you think they should be able to use the 2 activations as they want ie. 1 reactive fire/1 activation, 2 reactive fire (reacting to 2 different units), or 2 consecutive actions? Considering that you don't have to activate that unit immediately (on your next activation) after injecting it seems like that would work ok.

Yeah, many options to deal with Reactive Fire and stimmed unit. I'd still go with my original "sustained reactive fire" idea, because the others create a problem with keeping track of a half-activation.

Except the rules state:

If you obtain a [Hit] your unit immediately activates and performs a single Attack action
with all weapon lines that have sufficient range to target the opposing unit. Once you’re
done, the enemy unit continues with its action.

The single attack action clause doesnt give you any choice and you never get your 2nd action for that actvation so i dont see why you would get a 3rd or 4th. Since it is an activation it would still exhaust them the next round.

There are no rules to allow sustained fire when reacting under the combat drugs. If you are that desperate to do so you get 1 shot off as normal and thats it, the units activation is over and the models are laid down

Yeah, I guess there's nothing in the rules that would really allow for a sustained reactive fire. I concur with the overall conclusion, if you use a stimmed unit for reactive fire, you're wasting your stim shot.

Yes RAW does indeed favor that option, but I would have to say that by my reading you would not become exhausted. It says you become exhausted after the second action which would not happen.

Doing nothing in the 2nd activation is still the activation. It is the same as passing.

All units have 1 activation. With the stimpack the affected unit has 2 activations available. Even if you choose to do nothing on the 2nd activation you still have activated the unit.

Yeah, I don't see it being allowed for you to abdicate on your second activation in order to escape the exhaustion consequences. Say you have a tough opponent ahead, so you decide to stick your squad with stimulants so they can attack that enemy twice in a row. But then, you get really lucky with your roll and manage to kill it with the first attack. It makes no sense for you to then be able to forego the second activation, and thus be able to act normally the following round.

Skills override the rules, the skill gives an optional activation as written (can vs does or must). I agreed this was probably not intended. The last comment was about reactive fire. I think the thread got a bit garbled in regards to response. I was saying that if you do not get your second activation due to using reactive fire than you do not become exhausted.

I understand your logic, I just don't think it's in the spirit of the game. If you shoot a squad with some crazy experimental drug, they're going to collapse soon, whether they shoot a lot of people, run around, or just stand there foaming at the mouth and shaking.

following that line of reasoning they should also still get the second activation. I can see the call for forcing the second activation (making it not optional), but if they do not get a another activation after using reactive fire they really should not become exhausted. I think the sustained reactive fire idea is the most elegant removing the need to keep track of half activations I could also see adding another line of rules forcing that unit to be the next chosen for activation in all situations making the bookkeeping easy enough. I guess someone could ask CS how out of turn activations interact and we could all do the opposite.

I got an answer to a question I made regarding a couple of cases of this confusion between round and activation . I asked about Medal of Honor (which the rules say can only be used once per round), and All-In-One (which the rules say affects all attacks that round).

The All In One skill only applies to a single activation . The text in the Core Rulebook is slightly incorrect. It should be considered to read "When a unit uses this skill, roll twice the normal number of attack dice for all of its weapon lines for that activation ."

Similarly, if already used, the reroll provided by the Medal of Honor skill cannot be used a second time if the unit is reactivated by a Command Squad. If, however, the unit did not use the Medal of Honor skill on its activation for the round , and is reactivated by a Command Squad, it can use its Medal of Honor reroll on the second activation.

So there we have it, in one case "round" meant "round", in the other "round" meant "activation". This makes it kinda hard to get the rules right without asking them about every single case. Assault, for example, doesn't even mention the duration of its effect (whether 1 action, 1 activation, 1 round, or for the rest of the match). Heroic Attack is supposed to last for one round.... or could it possibly be one activation?

I think Assault is pretty obvious as the text mentions using it for a 2 move actions and can only be used once per game, so it won't be for the duration of the game or there wouldn't be any point in saying it can be used once.

Yeah, of course, I mentioned it lasting the whole match just to show the absurdities that can be interpreted if the rules are not clearly written. Technically, there's nothing in the rules saying Assault doesn't stay in effect until the end of the match. It can only be used once, but once used, how long does it last?

Of course, my real doubt is between lasting one activation or one round. If a stimmed unit uses Assault, does it have its Move doubled for both of its 2 consecutive activations, or just for one of them?

Once is once no matter how long it lasts - when tou use it it's gone and there is no point in treating this otherwise.

daniello_s said:

I don't think you quite understood the issue here... Of course it very much matters how long it lasts.

Ok, so first a breakdown of all the units of time, for clarity's sake

Round- Largest unit of game time, lasts until all units have been activated.

Activation- Also loosely referred to as a turn, under normal circumstances one player choosing a unit and taking that units two actions.

Action- Move, Skill, Attack, Sustained Attack (uses 2) are all the actions

The question is how long to some skills (All In One,Assault,Berserk) last? This is not stated explicitly in the rule book. Most people are fine with using common sense and having it not last the entire game. All in one has been stated to last the Action. The question is do the others last one activation or one round. Normally this is irrelevant but with Stimulants it becomes an issue. IMO I would follow the All in One ruling and go from the assumption that skills last 1 Activation unless otherwise noted

You can't make an overall assumption like that. Some skills last one action (Fast), some one activation (All-In-One, Assault, Berserk), and some one round (Heroic Attack).

Yeah, I guess I misunderstood you. "Lasts 1 activation unless otherwise noted" seems like a good rule of thumb. The exception being All-In-One, which has been pointed out to be incorrectly written.

This blog has posted a whole bunch of official FFG answers that are quite useful. Summing up:

- Ozz can use Heroic Attack on the activation in which he recovers from a stim shot.

- Flamethrowers can reach up to the roof of a structure, but they can only target multiple squares on the same floor.

- Units on the roof must be on the edge facing the opponent in order to have LOS.

- Units with Jump can jump off the roof of a structure.