Hey everybody, this is my first post, I searched a lot but I didnt find this question, so here it goes.

As far as I know all the standard issue wargear is common craftmanship, so since the Crozium doesnt have a requisition cost, how can I upgrade it? or is Master-Crafted? or is common and I have to deal with it?

thnxs for the answers and sorry about my english.

The Crozius Arcanum now counts as signature wargear, so signature wargear talents should apply to it. As a GM, I wouldn't have a problem with a chaplain character being gifted a mightier Crozius as he accumulated deeds, either through signature wargear talents or requisition. Exceptional, master-crafted and relic versions surely exist, if they are rare.

but, there is no RAW that can support that.

Yeah fluff wise I assume there is Relic Crozius and things like that, but RAW its what it is? im right?

This falls into the grey area created by the NA entry on req costs. This one slightly less than some (I'm looking at you Hesh pattern Bolter) since it is only available through advanced specialty and there isn't much you can add to it other than craftsmanship. I firmly believe they should have a number for all the gear for just this purpose.

There are no rules for how to handle this by RAW. If my Chaplain player wanted a better one I'd say sig wargear for an exceptional one and Sig Master for Master crafted (along with the standard bonuses from the talent) and of course crazy relic stuff for Sig Hero.

Having checked the entry myself, the lack of a requisition cost is annoying for precisely the reasons described by Nathiel. No, the RAW doesn't specifically describe any above-common quality crozius. But better versions of all other non-unique weapons *are*. And the crozius is not a unique weapon. Rare and limited to chaplains only, but not unique.

If a player asked me about this, I'd assign a requisition cost for the sake of working out signature wargear talents. I'm inclined to say 25 or so because a power sword is 20 requisition but has worse statistics than a crozius.

From my point of view Crozius are mastercraft piece of wargear.

They are the symbol of the faith in god emperor and all the honor and glory to be his angels of death. It is the symbol of the unbreackale might of the adeptus astartes and the sign by witch those few select for their righterous soul and flesh are seen.

It has never, actually, really never come to my mind that a crozius could be anything else than a piece of craftmanship from a master of the art. A weapon representing the Emperor and the faith and will of his stronghest follower. A weapon that inspire fear in the heart of heretics, xenos and coward.

A common craftmanship crozius would be, once more in my point of view, an insult to both the chaplain and the adeptus astartes.

Fair enough on your opinion Thebigjul, but there is nothing in the RAW stating that the Crozius is mastercrafted. There is the point that "common quality" does not mean the same thing for Astartes wargear as it does for mortal wargear. A common mortal flamer can be churned out by manufactorums on just about any hive world. A common Astartes flamer is handcrafted by a Magos Artisan or Techmarine with some of the finest materials and forge technologies available in the Imperium. Even those weapons which are regarded as rare and wellmade by mortal standards such as power and plasma weapons are given respectively more time, effort and care in their Astartes equivalent. Thus, a common quality Crozius would still be a marvel of technology and worthy of fear and respect, with only a handful of even more awe-inspiring items available in the entire chapter Reclusiam.

If the Crozius should be assumed to be mastercrafted, there should be a notation of that since that level of craftsmanship gives some pretty good mechanical benefits to the item.

That there is no such notation indicates, to me, that the basic Crozius is common craftsmanship, though that should not be read as an insult to the item.

Hi and first be satisfied the spirit of the crozius had not been insult.

It is true that the crozius don't give the average bonus for craftmanship, but think of it, your ennemi never going to dodge if you hate him, and when you are a chaplain you have numerous hate.

But, once more it's only my point of view. Play it as you like and enjoy. But for my part it is quite a powerfull weapon in game effect when fighting and roleplaying.

Dont get me wrong, The Crozius is a great weapon, fluff wise and mechanical wise, give hatred already gives you the +10WS but my PC will get Chaplain cause of the story, fluff and how he behaves, but its a ranged toon, so my WS its not my strong stat, so the +10 to hit of MC would be awesome to add to hatred, but if i cant, I cant.

your ennemi never going to dodge if you hate him, and when you are a chaplain you have numerous hate.

where says that enemies cant dodge if you have hatred against them?

BTW, I asked the question over mail to FFG support staff, lets hope I can get a reply.

Interrogator-Chaplain Azael said:

Hated enemies can dodge attacks made by Crozius, they just can not use defensive stance.

A dubious ability if your GM never has your enemies use defensive stance, or any other special abilities.

Sorry then i was sure it was unable to dodge, my fault.

Was at work when i post it and didn't have the book with me, so my memorie was faulty... I will do penance for my ignorance... Sorry again brother chaplain, I will see to correct my learnings.

Interrogator-Chaplain Azael said:

There is nothing to stop a chaplain from gunning down the enemies of the Imperium, so long as he does it while close enough to inspire his brothers. I asked the GM of the game I play in and he is fine with my future chaplain wearing a crozius by his side while he uses his boltgun to slay xeno filth. Of course, my character is a Lamenter and favours melee more than most in the party...

Decessor said:

Yeah I know there is nothings that tells you that you MUST use the Crozium, but as a Chaplain, I imagine that my character will wanna use it, most of all to get hatred and spread it with Litany of Hate.

PD: Brother Bigjul, to fail is to commite heresy against the Emperor himself.

I imagine Morael will use it pretty much constantly once he does into chaplain. He is a son of Sanguinius after all and lives up to it, even as a tactical marine. I'm just pointing out that a chaplain *could* use his hands to kill the enemy in another fashion so long as the crozius is still present and visible.

Interrogator-Chaplain Azael said:

Does that include spelling mistakes?

Interrogator-Chaplain Azael said:

I said it on the first post... English is not my mother language.

English isn't mine neither.

Brother Chaplain I will atone for my sins and came back full of strength and fury to punish and destroy the ennemy of our beloved Emperor.

I will seek redemption through meditation and self contrition.

"I walk for Maccrage and I shall know no fear"