The updated tournament rules for the 2012 season are back online:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/coc/support/coc-Tournament%20Rules%20Ver%202.0.pdf

Notable highlights:

One 50-minute game per round.

The legal card sets now include the Forgotten Lore cycle and end with the Ancient Relics cycle. It appears that any APs from Revelations will not be tournament legal.

Notable mistake:

Under the Pre-Game Setup section detailing how to pick who goes first, the rules still talk about multiple matches per round. I'm considering some type of rule that randomizes the first player during the initial round, but then shifts to a non-random process in round 2 (and 4, etc) so players have a chance of going second at least once in the tournament.

Another mistake is when it talks about number of stories when time is called. Matt and Bob both have one story, but Matt wins; but the next sentence, if they both have the same number of stories, they get a tie. haha.

Yeah, I suspect that in the document where it says "Matt has won 1 story" and then "Bob has won one", it was supposed to say "Bob has won none".

So... Mr. Bond, we have our card pool.

The game is afoot!

(ok... i have... no clue... as to what I just did there)

Anyone esle see this as a possible stepping stone into a set rotation/block format?

If yes, I hope they equally support block tournaments and 'all-card' tournaments.

I was thinking the same thing. And I think it could be good for the game to use set rotation as one of several formats.

I'm surprised, yet intrigued, that we already have all the cards that can be used this season. (Season ends at GenCon or at Worlds in November?)

TheProfessor said:

Could you please elaborate on the rotating format hunch? Am I missing something?

Carioz said:

For me it is not based on anything specific, just the fact that the sets are listed in a formal manner. This format would make it easy to suggest that next season one of the cycles was not eligible and a new one was.

There's nothing in the document other than the format of the eligibility list to make me think set rotation might be a possibility.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I find the idea that there will be no more legal cards until after Gencon a little bit disappointing. It kind of makes sense to fix the pool for the whole tournament season, but it also sort of feels like you opened all your gifts early and there's nothing left for Christmas morning

I wouldn't jump to a conclusion about block rotation at this point. Sometimes a list is just a list.

Now that the card pool is set, do we know if there will be a FAQ update prior to the start of the season?

dboeren said:

I tend to agree. Considering the sloppy editing of the new tournament rules document, it seems more likely FFG just slapped this update together without much foresight. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see different formats supported, I just don't think they have a long-term vision for organized play at this point in time. Or if they do, they haven't implemented it yet.

Of course, I could easily be mistaken. They are hiring for an Organized Play Associate, after all!

No word on an updated FAQ. It was the first thing I checked for when I found the new tournament rules. Considering the regional championships can theoretically start in just over 3 weeks, if they're going to release it they should do it sooner rather than later.

Carioz said:

Its mostly based on a conversation I had with Nate back in '08 before they decided to re-boot the game.

Essentially the card pool is getting too large/expensive, so its possible to that a descision could come about that only certain (the newer) stuff will be legal instead of all cards printed.

By setting the limit on whats legal (disallowing the upcoming cycle) makes things more easily controled. FAQ is easier, gives more people time to prepare, and a more defined metagame to be formed before the 'big one.'

This is a common foundation for a block format, and the use of the words "tournament season" also fuels a little bit of my curiousity that FFG may be laying in some ground work for a possible move.

Of course, for those reading, there has been no announcment of this, this is NOT what they're doing. Just me reading the situation that they might be looking to head in that direction.

However, a few notes:
-For a player to "catch up" from scratch is almost over a $1,000 (US and retail) now. A tough sell to new players.
-Card pool contains over a 1000 unique cards. Quite a sizeable pool for anyone to keep track of and build out of.

So, going to a tournament season, limiting the card pool for the said season, and the the amount/cost of cards at our disposal. We're a new core set and a announcement away from it happening. Of course, I could also be reading to much into it.

I dunno, but exciting times none the less.

Personally I'd prefer it if we got to use new cards throughout season as it plays to some of my strengths as a player. However, I think this is a good move for the tournament scene overall to limit the pool.Still, I'm concerned that the timing might be a little off for our game as its still 8 months till Worlds. Thats a long time to play with the same card pool... a LONG time.

Its a long time indeed to last with the same cardpool. Hopefully, in the meantime, they will reprint Dreamlands as I believe most of the players wait for the reprint before purchasing 3 of each 6 dreamland-packs for a complete set. This will not really expand the card pool but for many people it will expand their personal card pool to choose from.

Magnus, you made me curious about the cardpool.

I did some looking at the deck builder. When including storycards we have 977 + 32 unique cards = 1.009. If I calculated correctly there are 977 unique cards. Deckbuilder says 957 cards , excluding promo cards, but it misses the last asylum pack of the Ancient relics cycle which contains 20 unique cards. However, I think you should not count storycards as a part of the cardpool as they are auto-included when playing the game and they are not part of your deck.

How big is the cardpool at MtG type II? One core set and one block? how many cards is that approx?

About the money to purchase a full set when waiting for the reprint of Dreamlands is about 630 dollars

3 core sets x 35
3 deluxe expansions x 25 (2 x secrets of Arkham)
6 cycles x 6 packs x 12,50

These are estimated retailprices.

Darkman said:

My count was based off of a rough estimate, still thought I cleared a grand easy. Oh well, adjust my comment to say "almost a 1,000 cards." Still makes my point though.

As for my retail price your numbers are a little off.

Core is 39.95 x 3 = 119.85
Secrets of Arkham @ 24.95 x 2 = 49.90
Order of the Silver Twilight = 29.95
5 cycles of 6 packs @ 14,95 = 448.5

Which comes about $742.25 US not including tax.

Now, I'm going to do add 3x of the dreamlands cycle at 9.95 = 179.10 because if they want to fully catch up they'll likely figure this into their calculations at first.

That gets us up to $921.35 + tax and/or shipping. Now, thats paying full retail with most of these prices pulled directly from the FFG online store and not subtracting any deals you can find (which can be found often).

As for the mtg card pool. Its kinda hard ot say. Many cards are reprints or basically the same card with a different name. But, right now and including everything, there are 1,210 and theres another set to be released into standard. which should contain about 171 cards will would take them to 1,381.

However, that total from using the mtg gatherer and is a complete lie and is considerably lower as it includes, lands, reprints, and transformation sides of cards... and doesn't include that wierd window of time where two core sets are legal.

But, for standard, typically its one core set and 1 full block and 3 other sets (sometimes meaning a full 2nd block) and maybe a second core set (which is still pretty wierd to me).

So, we're really close in card count. Not so much in price though. A playset of just ONE mtg smaller expansion could cost well over a $1,000 and thats if it doesn't have a stupid high money card.

Again, timing could be right next year. A fun thought.

sorry, always forget that US prices are excluding tax as those can be different per state. I also used the prices on Ebay (the store were I always buy my packs and thats even cheaper then 12.50). But enough of my stupid rant about all those numbers (sorry about that Magnus).

I do like the cardpool we have right now. Enough choice to build some nice power or thematic decks. Its even possible to build a not-all-that-bad monodeck. I dont think we should exclude any cycles soon to narrow the pool down, as a full cycle only gives us 120 new cards for 8 different factions, thats roughly 13 cards per faction as we also have neutrals.

I think we should have at least a card pool as it is now --> core set, 2 deluxe expansions, 6 cycles. For tournament play you can possibly exclude the first cycle as a new one has fully come out, so to have 6 cycles available at all times. And you can also do this for every new deluxe expansion that reaches daylight (if they ever will again!)

TheProfessor said:

Not me. I hope not.

120 cards in a set along with the core? Even 3 cycles of 360 cards with the core would be heavily restricting.

They tried this suggestion in the early game night kits. it was not a bad idea when all there was was the core and 3 asylum packs available and to make sure noobs were on even footing.

The card pool as of right now is still not deep enough to consider such a mistake in tourney format.

Magnus Arcanis said:

...divided between 8 factions (9 if you count neutral).

Not that deep really. I agree it is not cheap, but the restriction would be hobbling.

I also do not really have much of a stake in this because tournaments around here at the FFG EC usually consist of 6 players, max. So, tourney play is more or less a joke around here. Just give Jim Black the trophy when he gets here and save everyone the trouble.

[edit] Thats not to say Jim wouldnt win it if there were dozens more players. Jim is a great player and a hoot to play against. it's just depressing when there is Jim, 1 or 2 other people and then me. makes it hardly worth attending and my hats off to Jim for making the drive all this way just to play against such a shallow pool of players at regionals here. He deserves the trophy for that alone. [/edit]

Darkman said:

No worries, I'm sick at home... at the very least gave me something to do. lol.

Its a tricky thing to figure out, and could possibly be the thing that would keep FFG from making a move. Balancing card count with a total price point is a very tricky matter.

As hellfury is saying, need to make sure there is plenty of cards to work with. I think what we have now is sufficient. I wouldn't mind another cycle's worth though. That said I'd like to see it cheaper.

Maybe a new core set/big box expansion, with a playset of 16 cards per faction and 8 neutrals totalling 408 (136 unqiue) cards + stories with an updated rule book for around say... 40-50 US?

Take one of those plus the latests 5 cycles (600 unqiue cards) at 14.95 a piece ($448.50). Add that to the box I mentioned a moment ago and we have 736 unique card pool for $500.

Seems rather reasonable and (in theory) should provide enough space to build a diverse meta out of for those looking to become competitive.

---------------

Thats all of course an 'off-the-top' idea. Can add antoher cycle for $89.70 each giving us another 120 cards per.

Again though, in my opinion, they should never stop supporting buying all the cards printed. Like say... rotation format for regionals and nationals and use everything for worlds? Sigh, probably won't happen, but I'd rather ptich $500 to be completely competitive instead of $1,000 to be completely competitive.

Personally, I don't find the card pool overly large at all. If anything, I'm anxious to get more cards. Dividing the cards 9 ways does a lot to make each faction's sliver very very manageable.

On the cost issue, it can be got for a lot less than these numbers. I started from scratch about a year ago and am nearly caught up for what I consider a reasonable amount. Take the 742.25 for full retail. Deduct $12.50 since you're only buying 1.5 copies of Secrets of Arkham and not 2 - assume you're splitting it with someone. That's 729.75. Now buy it online. That deducts at least 25% and gives you free shipping and no tax. You can get 30% easily (actually slightly more) if you shop around. So now you're at $510.83. That includes full everything except for Dreamlands, which many people prefer to wait for the reprint on (I currently am). You can potentially trim a little more if you're OK with just 2x copies of Core or Secrets of Arkham which is probably enough for some players and then you're under $500. It doesn't require any lucky eBay finds or whatever, just a price anyone can get with some clicks.

I'm not really that interested in prices, the only point of that is to say that it's moderately onerous to get the whole set from scratch but not crippling. My main interest is whether they are going to institute some sort of block phase-out thing. Personally, I hope very much that they do not. One of the appealing things about the game is that your cards don't go obsolete - and there are very few banned cards as well. While we can of course keep playing with all cards in casual settings, it's a negative point to new players if they know cards they buy will be phased out over time.

As a practical matter, what would they phase out? Can't kill the Core set. Forgotten Lore is oldest, but also sort of new as it was reprinted not long ago. All the sets are still commonly used, and the next oldest (Summons of the Deep) is a popular recommendation for a first set to pick up. I just don't see a good way to do this.

For those interested, here are the exact numbers:

total unique cards: 971 (excluding 32 story cards and 2 banned cards for a total of 1005 cards)

Agency: 106

Miskatonic: 113

Syndicate: 112

Silver Twilight: 75

Cthulhu: 107

Hastur: 108

Shub-Niggurath: 108

Yog-Sothoth: 108

neutral: 166

Yipe said:

Both the FAQ and Tournament rules have been updated again - version 2.0.1. Of particular importance is the following paragraph of Damon's "Tomes of Dark Knowledge" article:

"The Tournament Rules 2.0.1 document defines all the cards legal for tournament play as of this moment, but this current list is not intended to govern the entire season. We will from time to time update the Tournament Rules document to include Asylum Packs that have been released and become readily available for tournaments. We expect to include Asylum Packs that have been available 3-5 weeks before a Regional Championship event. However, the local Tournament Organizer (T.O.) has the final say about which of the new packs are legal. To avoid any confusion, please contact the T.O. to verify which packs will be legal at a Regional Championship."

This means that tournaments held later in the season will have a larger card pool, or could potentially have a different restricted list.

My regional championship - in Portland, OR - is the latest of the season at June 23rd. As the Tournament Organizer, it looks like I've got some decisions to make...

Here's a link to the article:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp

He talks about updating the tournament rules, not the the FAQ. I suspect everyone will be playing with the same rules for the regionals, though the card pool will alter slightly.