Kain McDogal said:

I don't see how all that is illogical.

Wearing a big suit that gets its enhanced strength from larger fiber bundles. More strength but less speed and agility. So the fiber bundles on a Terminator can't move fast enough to allow the marine to run. By that same token they wouldn't be fast enough to support the fast muscle movements needed to dodge out of the way of something. Climbing wouldn't be a problem, but swimming would. there's no way a terminator suit would be boyant in water without really big floaties, this is a common sense issue a GM is there for. Just because there is no rule saying something can't be done, when grade school level common sense says it can't be done then it can't be done. This is an RPG, not monopoly, common sense applies, and its the GM's duty to make sure it is.

Dreadnaughts use motors and pistons and vehicle parts. Their motive devices are larger and much stronger and probably work faster. While it should be fairly obvious, they are also designed specifically to move the weight of the dreadnaught. Thus the dreadnought would be able to make faster movements than a terminator would. Although this doesn't help the dreadnaught fit through that door, or into the shuttle.

herichimo said:

You should stick to your own suggestions more often, but I've already mentioned this in the past!

Only because there are no rules for a Terminator running doesn't mean it's plausible he can't. Of course he is cumbersome and can't run like an athlete but it really makes no sense that he can have a higher Half/Full Move than an average human and at the same time can't run. Every Movement Type should be nerfed down accordingly so that his Basic Movement is already very slow. After that he can be granted the Run Action and this will fix most issues.

And of course Climbing is as much about Agility than Strength. I didn't know why the tied it only to Strength because it's obvious that a world class heavy weight lifter is at a disadvantage when it comes to climbing compared to a spindly free climber who can manage it's own weight better.

If Terminators can swim is a debate we had ourselves but as there is Grey Knight Novel where Terminator swam across a type of river we ruled that they can maybe because of the atmosphere inside or maybe because of some vacuum-filled spaces inside the layers. After all even normal Astartes Power Armour shouldn't be able to stay afloat when they would only be a 180kg solid mount of ceramic plating. As climbing swimmining is as much about Agility than Strength and should get some penalty but last time I've missed that a Swim Test already gets a -30 penalty and imposes 1 level of Fatigue when wearing armour so the penalty for Terminators should be raised to -50 for our house rules.

No matter how fast the motors in a Dreadnaught would work they can't offset the additional mass, volume and blocky build. Dodge is not about moving a few inch out of the way of an incoming attack but it's a combination of fast movement and manoeuvrability. The faster something moves the smaller can be the changes in directions to avoid an incoming attack (as long as the attacker doesn't take the speed into account) but an Dreadnaught isn't nearly as fast to avoid an attack that way so he is bound to the same restrictions as any humanoid target and has to jump and somersault itself out of harms way. Now imagine a thing the size and shape of a large van trying to get up on it's feet again after such a manoeuver. No, Dreadnaughts aren't really good at dodging (which is thankfully reflected by the rules) but Terminators should at least be able to do the same stunts if not better because of there smaller size and more streamlined form (compared to a Dreadnaught).

Kain McDogal said:

I don't see why. Moving fast is different from running. The terminator has plodding steps but a huge stride.

bogi_khaosa said:

In the real world you may be right, a person on stilts can cover more ground than someone without, but at the same time he is much less manoeuvrable than an ordinary person. DW Half/Full Move Actions are abstractions which take this manoeuvrability and the ability to use weapons on the move into account otherwise we would need at least 2 additional movement rates: Half/Full Move+Attack Actions movement rates.

If you see it this way it will complicate things even more.

The 'average' terminator move (Ag Bonus 2+1 for Hulking) is the same as the average move of a normal human (Ag Bonus 3.)

Taking away running puts them at a huge speed deficit when compared to anyone, let alone other marines. If you allow the charge move without attack the only people who would have a reason to do this would be Terminators. Unless you have a nice clear path the Ag test to not fall down (P.206) probably isn't worth it. Now if you never have to deal with terrain or environmental conditions then I see that as a GM that is slacking off.

Due to posting from work... I mean.. uh... home... I wanted to weigh in but have only been able to skim the above wall of text

My opinion is rules of cool. There are two mental images that could equally apply here:

The armoured figure advances slowly. It looks less like a man than awalking tank, armour taken from the exo-suits used to patrol the inside of plasma reactors. This man, this creature, raises a weapon that even a normal Astartes would buckle under the weight of and opens fire, the multiple barrels of his oversized cannon scything through his foes. They cannot withstand such firepower so they charge. Fools. Their weapons crash into the thick armour plates with no effect, blows from children could not do less. The astartes raises one servo-assisted fist. Pistons slam into place, disruption fields crackle, and the fist obliterates a foe. There is no speed here, no grace, but the inevitable, unstoppable motion of tectonic shift. They run. They die. The astartes may not be fast, but his weapon spits death faster than sound. Those it kills never even hear the roar of fire.

or...

The terminator charges forwards. Its speed is incredible for something that size, reminiscent of a charging arcreosaur more than a man. It does not stop at the barricade its foes have erected. That pathetic edifice provides as much resistance as the fragile flesh that cowers bedind it. In a spray of shrapnel from the doomed barricade, the terminator enters the horde; at the end of its left arm, death. The power fist, scourge of a thousand, thousand xenos, crashes over and over into the doomed throng and they futiley attempt to counter assault. Claws and blades break on the terminator as it continues its rampage. It is not an armoured man, its foes realise, it is a spirit of wrath. An angel of death. They feel fear and flee the wrath of Him on Earth. The astartes inside the armour growls, and the reactor pitch growls with him: they are not done killing. Slowly, the terminator starts to move again, accelerating to a speed that take him deep into the heart of the horde. They die as the flee, crushed underfoot by two tonne of armoured vengeance. They dodge left and right, but the terminator is not phased. He cannot shift direction as fast as the cowardly creatures before him, so he lifts the barrels of his rotary cannon and sweeps to either side. The ancient weapon feeds well, another dozen xenos falling before it in the second long burst of fire.

If the first is what you prefer, they can't run. If the second appeals more, they can. Done. Go GMs prerogative!

Wow, still going at it?

Hadn't even looked into this thread since I posted my last. I'm not going to go looking over all the "but in real life(movies)" or other types of comments. It all gets so boring seeing the same arguments over and over again, even though getting advice about common sense from those who seem to be lacking is amusing. I'll just leave off with the following, then I will say goodbye to this thread forever (well, at least until I get an e-mail from FFG finally putting this charge nonsense to bed).

Terminators can not run.
There is no "move your charge move" action.
But, terminators may use a Charge action, as long as they meet the requirements to charge.
Terminators get +1 agi bonus for the purpose of movement from hulking.

None of these things can be denied or wished away. They are true facts as can be proven in the main rulebook.

Feel free to continue your ravings, but I wash my hands of this.

herichimo said:

Hey, it's a game and not some law concerned with road saftey. It's a true fact that the Earth orbits the Sun, but you act like someone who fears that the FFG-Rules-Regulation-Squad can enter your house at any minute if someone violates their holy rules.

You still don't seem to get it that my last posts contained our new Terminator House Rules. I've never tried to give my interpretation of the RAW but at some time we saw how illogical they where on this part and so we fixed them with our own rules. Works fine for us but this doesn't mean they work fine for everyone. It's our game so EVERYTHING can be denied or wished away, if we don't like it, the question is if those changes make any sense at all or if the RAW alone should be enough.

I've started this thread with some questions and in between all the answers I've found the perfect solution for our group, so thanks to all who have come up with some interisting suggestions beyond:"It's not written in the book, so it doesn't exist!".

Thats why there is the House Rule section in the forums, this is for actual rules in print.

Bait said:

Actually this was a rules question which developed into a house rule because of the feedback..

I was looking through things the other day and reread the Sprint talent. It reminded me of this thread.

It lets you take a full move action and go what is effectively your charge move.

All Space Marines can take Sprint at rank 4.

There is how you do it completely by the RAW.