Loophole Master said:
Dakkon426 said:
But that's the thing, Scout does not require an action, so what you do with your actions is irrelevant, Scout stands on its own.
This argument is clearly going nowhere, though. How about we just ask them?
ok lets just ask
will ask FFG support thru email, then post the answer!
Cheers!
Loophole Master said:
The Hans' Granate Werfer ignores cover, just like Joe's Grenade Launcher. This was confirmed by the Dust team.
My apologies I stand corrected
Is this documented anywhere by chance for reference, thanks
When attacking soldier units, Hans' Granate Werfer is considered an "Incendiary Blast." This is the same type of damage as a Flamethrower and Under-Barrel Grenade Launcher. Both of those weapons ignore cover, therefore Han's Granate Werfer does as well (but only if it is attacking soldier units).
Christopher Hosch
Though they clearly screwed up by not including "Granate Werfer: Grenade Weapon" in the abilities section of the Hans' card, like they did with Bazooka Joe. And Chris got a bit mixed up by calling it an "incendiary blast" instead of simply a "grenade weapon".
The question is when can we expect then next set of revised cards?
Dakkon426 said:
The question is when can we expect then next set of revised cards?
It would be nice if they came out with a new Rule book that had all of the changes, edits, rewording of rules and skills ect. Kinda hard to keep track of with each new expansion. Be nice to start from a clean slate.
Anyone buys those new cards?
They cost a 5 man squad and if you play with decent ppl they schould understand the diffrence:P Also you can simply write the missing things at the bottom of the card.
Before this thread meanders too far off topic
-- I've sent an email to FFG regarding the original question and will post the response as soon as I receive it.
I've asked them as well. We'll probably get simulatenous and very similar answers.
Then we'll put the matter to rest -- until, of course, when someone else posts a similar thread a few months from now & the process starts over again...
It would've been nice if every skill had an example in the rulebook below it for times like this or if Scout was written in the same manner as Fast rather than worded differently.
Description wording changed slightly to make it require a move action to work.
"A vehicle with this skill reconnoiters the field for enemy troops. During the first round only, this vehicle can move two extra spaces when it performs its first movement action . If a vehicle with this skill enters the game after the first round, this skill does not take effect."
Description wording changed slightly to make it NOT require a move action to work.
"A vehicle with this skill reconnoiters the field for enemy troops. During the first round only, this vehicle can move two extra spaces regardless of whether it performs a movement action or not . If a vehicle with this skill enters the game after the first round, this skill does not take effect."
Your first example would still be confusing, since Deployment is sort of considered a move action...
Loophole Master said:
Your first example would still be confusing, since Deployment is sort of considered a move action...
Very true, infact the rulebook says its a mandatory move action, so its likely Scout kicks in right as it enters the battlefield.
Going to have to put my vote on being able to have Scout go off right as you enter the field with Hans and then being able to either move again or attack for the remaining action.
Still have to wait to see the FFG says for the official answer naturally.
From what I've gathered from this lively (and still unanswered by FFG) debate:
During the first turn of a scenario, "Deployment" requires the controller of a unit to expend one of the unit's actions to place it in a square designated as an "entry square" as per the scenario.
At this point, a unit that has the "Scout Vehicle" skill would be able to move an additional 2 MP after its initial deployment, as the skill grants the unit free additional movement regardless of whether or not its controller spends an action to do so.
A unit with the "Fast" skill may only apply this skill when the controller of the unit voluntarily expends an action on movement, therefore it cannot use the "Fast" skill during its initial deployment, since it has not yet spent any actions on movement. If a unit with the "Fast" skill uses its subsequent (next) action to move, the "Fast" skill CAN be applied to this movement action.
This is it, kiddos: The spent DEPLOYMENT action of a unit IS NOT considered a MOVEMENT action of the unit.
i.e., Deployment is not Movement.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. (At least until FFG replies to my email & tells me otherwise, then the debate rages once again!!!)
Is it any wonder that I chose Mr. Guevara as my avatar???
Thats wrong though Lotus, as mentioned a few times already the rules actually say that a unit spends a move action to enter the board, its not a deployment action - no such thing.
So the "Fast" skill can be applied to a unit on its Deployment action, since it is considered an action spent on movement?
If that's the case, then what's to stop a unit with 2 MP from moving an additional square (while retaining an action) right after it is deployed?
And the "Scout Vehicle" skill can only be applied when? To a unit on its first or second action?
Confused again...
That's the whole source of confusion with Deployment, that they called it a move action. It was a mistake for them to say that. How can it be a move action if (as per their further answers), your move rating doesn't apply to it and you can't use skills in conjuction to it? If it's a move action, it's a VERY exceptional move action, so why not just call it Deployment?
I don't like the examples from the rulebook. They mostly consider the easiest possible scenario. The same was with the jump. Many ppl is still sure that jumping with a units uses 2 actions... They need to come up with diffficult rule situations not the easiest ones...
Agreed. The example should show a situation that scowcases all the particularities of the rule, not just the most straightfoward use of it.
I still think -- even though many believe otherwise -- that the spent DEPLOYMENT action of a unit SHOULD NOT be considered a MOVEMENT action of the unit.
i.e., Deployment should not be considered a Movement Action.
If this would be the case, so many questions about a unit's first move would be answered. And so many riddles solved... And if you are a hardcore player of DT and think about it for more than a minute, it just makes sense, no matter what the original rule book says...
Maybe FFG want you to use abilities which is why they use a move action to enter the table. Also when we first played the game units moved onto the table as normal without limiting to a one square move - this caused no problems either. The only hurdle that seems to be tripping players up is the criteria on entering play is that movement is restricted to one square.
Well instruction says that first action is always range 1 movement :/
Lska said:
Well instruction says that first action is always range 1 movement :/
Sure, no problem, but now you have to cater for the special abilities that may or may not, depending on your point of view, contadict this statement. Which is why there is this discussion.
I do not think that there is a skill that states it can be used in the deployment action. Anyway this all confusion is caused by FFG not being able to unify language used in the instruction and campaign books.
There is no such thing as a deployment action though - its a move action. Some of the original rules used 'deploy' but was scrapped as that caused confusion as players thought that there was a deploy action - there isn't.