I just finished working on an Ultramarines Tyrannic War Veteran at rank 5 (our game is about to reach that level after the next game session, and was planning on trying something new), and came across the Storm of Iron talent and wondered when to apply the x2 modifier to Magnitude damage, because it seems a little over the top when armed with a Flamer with a few other talents.

By default, the Flamer does 5 + 1d5 magnitude damage to a Horde.

Cleanse and Purify increases the magnitude damage by 1d5.

Tyrannic War Stratagem (Slaughter the Swarm) does extra magnitude damage based on Int or Per bonus (in my character's case, 4).

And then against Tyranid Hordes, due to Tyrannic War Stratagem (Cleansing Flame) I get to roll the 1d5 for the Flamer (not Cleanse and Purify) twice and pick the highest, giving me a chance to roll higher.

If all this applies before doubling the magnitude loss due to Storm of Iron, in 1 shot I would be doing a minimum of 22 (5 + 4 + 1 + 1 = 11 x 2) and a maximum of 48 (5 + 4 + 5 + 5 = 19 x 2) damage to hordes.

Compare this to a Metal Storm Heavy Bolter using the updated rules (RoF -/-/6), that can attain a maximum of 26 (6 x 2 + 1 for Explosive, and then doubled), a weapon that also needs to roll to hit first, and it seems a bit over the top.

It's applied after all other additional hits.

This is what makes the flamer so attractive for killing hordes.

Side-note: your math is off by 10 for the maximum damage. 19x2 is 38, not 48.

I don't think that is quite an even comparison. A better one is a Storm bolter in the hands of a decently decked out Tactical or Dev.

Bolter Drill to increase the RoF by one (up to 5 hits)doubled from Storm quality (10) if you have managed to pick up the Master of Arms mark of distinction (RoB p.93) you can add Blast (2) (up to 20 hits) then add Hellfire rounds to double hits vs. horde(40!) plus one for explosive (41), add storm f Iron and you are rather crazy (82!?!!!!) even before the 'upcoming' rule change to explosive damage.... flamer what?

oh yeah, since it's basic you can dual wield them... up to 164 mag damage per round!!!

I'm pretty certain that in RAW you can't fire two basic weapons at once. IIRC any of the options allowing attacks with two-weapon fighting are pistols and melee weapons only.

Decessor said:

You can!

Under Two-Weapon Fighting: The character may use any meele Weapons or ranged weapons that can be reasonably used in one hand.

And as Astartes Power Armour Recoil Supression allows any Basic Weapon to be wielded one-handed you can shoot with 2 SB with the usaual penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting, but you can't use them in meele like a Pistol.

Kain McDogal said:

I see! It looks I was thinking about another 40krpg ruleset. Though the Gunslinger talent won't count (specifically says pistols).

Personally, I'm not keen on space marines dual wielding boltguns, if only it would seem a no brainer for "normal" marines in the background if it were that easy.

Decessor said:

Per the guidelines, you're limited to one Basic or Heavy weapon and 1-2 secondary weapons (pistol or melee weapons), although I make the latter 3 so you can have chainsword + bolt pistol + combat knife (the AM loadout).

If you enforce those guidelines (making them into rules), your life wil be much easier.

Gaire said:

Wow, I must have been tired when I wrote that lol

Thanks for the answers guys, and I didn't even think about dual-wielding Flamers, I had considered dual-wielding Hand Flamers because I forgot Space Marines can hold basic weapons one-handed