Hey guys,

so I've been reading a lot in the forums, following houserule threads etc and now decided to tell you about my problem. I'll be really honest with you right now: As far as WHRP3e goes, with all the possible house rules, flexibility of the system, hundreds of different action cards, talents (and their number increasing with each expansion being released), I am too **** intimidated to play. I have plenty of years of experience with roleplaying games, gm'ed a hell of a lot of them, and never had this problem. But I feel like, with WHRP3e, there is kind of a blockade in my head when it comes to preparing game sessions. Simply the number of options and the possible details of fleshing out each individual npcs just seem too much for me, as I always think I could do something wrong or won't use the system to its max. Don't get me wrong here, I love the game, I love the dice system and the action card principle, the recharge tokens etc. But the complexity frightens me to jump in front of my players and game all night.

I don't know whether you folks understand what I'm trying to get across. It has always been so simple. I am a fan of rules as written, meaning I don't like house rules (just a thing of personal preference I guess). Now, when I'm surfing the forums, it seems like EVERYONE bends the rules to his will, creating individual, cool aspects that sometimes change the whole system. And thing is, it WORKS, because 3e is just so flexible. I'm feeling pretty alone here, nearly forced to create house rules aswell, although I just want a system I can use, which is unambigous and easy to play with. Maybe it's there and I haven't discovered it yet.

What's your opinion on the subject? Thanks for any advice that encourage me to continue playing WHRP 3e. I love the system.

MrToasT

I see where you are... you can't get a intuitive feel of the whole system all at once. It's just too massive, so many cards, so many ailments, so many talents... So many options !

Maybe you are looking at it the wrong way. You say you want to know that you are "maximising" the system for full pleasure, it seems you are trying to get the most bang for a buck out of the system. And because it's so sprawling, you always get the feeling that you may be missing on something. Is that more or less it ?

WFRP isn't designed to be a system first - story later kind of game. To feel at ease with the immense latitude and flexibility the RAW give you, you need to tackle the game story first - system later. What I mean by that is that you need to start creating the story, the NPCs, just in conceptual terms: images, names, looks. And after that, you go fishing in all the material V3 gives you to make your creations come to life mechanically.

Skaven action cards can be used for the slimey rat-catcher, if you want to. Ed But could be the innkeeps' secret weapon... It doesn't matter really, it's your characters that count, and that is what the RAW tells you to do ! There's a paragraph somewhere where they suggest using flamebreath to represent a Skaven warpfire thrower. They want you to use the stuff as you see fit.

Just do it !

WFRP is a tool box, your game is your project. It's like building lego, really.

There's one catch, a small one, when freedom becomes second nature, you might be surprised at how creative you will get using these little cards...

Don't over do it ! 3 action cards per creature type is largely enough, with the exception of sorcerers and unique nemesis... Remember that it has to fit behind the GM screen.

I would tell you to do as most of us did. Take one of the introductory scenarios, Day late shilling or An eye for an eye and jump to it without house rules!

Play the game, get use to it, and time and experience will tell you what you need.

Take 4 pregens and run Day late, shilling short.

This system isnt any different from any other. Youive got skill checks and some accounting.

I personally dont create any NPCs for the game anymore (and why would you ever bother with that for non combatants anyways in any game?) .

The intimidating part is thinking you need to give NPCs talents and special actions. You dont. Just use the basic actions and some skill checks. Rollplay your rolls.

Thats it!

jh

PS: there is a stack of pre-gen characters in Liber Fanatica #7 built to the rules. Theyll get you 99% of the way there if need be.

I COMPLETELY understand this. I'm a noob GM also (see my experiences in another thread) and was very scared of, even put off for a while, my first session.

Jump into a session. I used an "introductory" learning session with just me and one of my players. I used a player that I knew would not complain when I said the first session would be a learning one for both of us.

It went fine and after the first session the system seemed to fall into place much more for me.

Go ahead and play a small session, stop preparing.

As for House-Rules:

I don't use any. When a situation comes up, that is not defined by the rules or where the rules seem off, I decide on the fly and my players are okay with it. They want to experience a cool story, I give em one. And sometimes they have ideas, too, for a specific situation.

Also the dice are a great help for "uncovered" situations.

It's not much different to other systems, I think. Even in GURPS we had situations, that weren't covered by the rules. Also, we experienced a kind of wave with the systems we play. Sometimes a rules-heavy system feels too clunky(?), sometimes a light system feels to skinny.

To me it comes down to the GM owning the system in a way, that the players trust you to provide a cool adventure.

It's ok not to use it to its full potential. Its not really a system one grocks and can control matrix style. It's more like jazz, with many variations on a theme. Sometimes its down right messy. Get familiar with the core ideas and rules and don't worry about playing a flat note now and them. Play a session with no creature or action cards or tokens behind the GM screen (PCs play as RAW), make up the monster action results as wildly as you like, eyeball pools and just have the creatures capitulate when it's dramatically appropriate. A session like that should help you get the drop on the game . Then follow up with a bunch of sessions where you just implement rules and tools that really excite you and ignore the rest for a while. Particularly don't sweat act structure or the more abstract rules, is ok to ask your players to bare with you for a few confused sessions till rally steps or distance ranges make sense.

Just on a physical logistical level, few GMs could hit the ground running with such a bits heavy game. Start small.

I suggest you not worry about houserule anything to start playing and maybe never houserule anything unless you find it seems broken.

As said, one of the two free downloads and some pregens are fine to start.

The cards all seem like "a lot" but really it's no more than "page after page feats and spells" etc.

In practice, I find the game easier to prep and run than D&D.

I'm also not a big fan of houseruling myself and don't think the game really needs any except to quietly take one or two career cards out of mix as too tankish BUT even that reflects a table that is not combat-focused and in a fight-fest maybe not an issue.

If you are too intimidated to GM 3rd edition right off the shelf the easiest and free way to get a taste of what it is like go to:

The Reckless Dice Podcast Page -- http://recklessdice.com/ and check out a live session like Horror at Hugeldale, Part 1 -- http://recklessdice.com/2012/01/live-session-the-horror-at-hugeldal-part-1/ and just listen to how the game flows a bit.

Then come back to these forums and browse through the campaign reports, and the various "how do you manage your crap!?" threads where people wax poetic on paper clips, post it notes, organization sheets, plastic bags, and which components have been mothballed by various groups. I think you'll find that our small but vicious community will help corrupt you to 3rd edition just fine.

I'd dress up the links better but FFG's forums are just the worst thing on the internet to me today :-)

Thanks guys, this is great. Thanks for all the advice, I'm already feeling better lol. I'll listen to the live gaming session to get used to the system, and I'll talk to my players that the start might be a bit rocky. I especially won't look at house rules or that optional stuff, just keep adding the rules one by one. Now I can't actually wait to get into the action

Something else you could do is run an introductory scenario with your players and tell them that while it may have an impact on the story, it will be a prelude, not the actual thing, and is really just to give you some practice with the rules. If you pick some interesting characters - with different motivations and abilities, and a few 'events' that you make happen to ensure that you have some variety, you should be fine.

However, I think you should make the test run complicated (in a way)... Keep the characters and the rules simple / just the basics, but make the setting a bit more complex. Think about this:

If you have a fight between a man and a goblin in an empty room, you may actually find the dice system more intimidating, because what can you really do in this scenario? Hit each other and, er... hit each other some more?

Instead, make sure the fight happens in a burning mansion, or on a sinking ship, or something dramatic, with lots of stuff around. It might sound like it's more intimidating, but it's actually easier to improvise this way. 2 banes and a sigmar's comet can easily become a collapsing wooden beam knocking you to your feet, but out of the way of the exploding gunpowder... Much easier than trying to make up results for a fight where there's nothing interesting around.

Also, involve the players. As you're building dice pools, explain why you're adding dice - as this sets the scene. It also allows you time to think through what you're doing. And let the players do this too. Encourage them to say 'I'll take two misfortune dice for the sticky swamp I'm wading through'. Encourage them to describe their own effects too. Partly because this will take some of the pressure off you, but your players will probably love it too. It will involve them in the story so much more.

When you are learning the system don't use any house rules, you can leave out some stuff to make things simpler (like the party sheet, fortune dies, etc).

But don't start changing stuff until you know how they actualy work. I feel allot of the house rules I see on this forums are ment to fix things that ain't broken or to simplify thing that should not be simplified. Having said that I am using allot of house rules found on this forum.

WFRP3 is a rather complex system. Not because the rules are complex, but because of the amount of system content. BUT it's also the most fun system I have ever had a pleasure to GM.

Stick with it. I take a few hours once in a while going through specific cards (ranged, melee, support, spells etc.) and by now I have a good feel of all cards and what is possible. But still it happends that my players finds cards with cool effects I either haven't noticed or just haven't seen just how great it is.

Once you start prepping for your first adventure use the pregenerated characters from Liber Fanatica 7. Character generation is THE most complex/intimidating thing for any group's maiden voyage. Then after a couple sessions consider letting the players rebuild their characters from scratch if desired.