Hello,

We are currently playing "Winds of Change" in a group with a Sigmar Initiate, a Zealot, a Smuggler and an Aprentice Wizard. The players have all spent 5 xp and we are at the end Encounter in the dwarven well. After Rushing the ongoing Ritual, the players quickly have found themselves with more than their hands full. At the end of the play session the players have managed to slow the Ritual, but two are sewerely injured and another have found himself surrounded by enemies.

Now the smart move for the players would be a tactical retreat to lick their wounds for a few moments. But being the so-called fanatic types (especially the Zealot and Initiate) I think they will figth until the bitter end.

How should I deal with this as a GM - When I want to create a realictic world, where choices have consequences?

There is a difference between being fanatical and being stupid .... unless you are a slayer and actually WANT to die (I view slayers much like traumatised people who end up as suicide bombers, who due to religious taboos cannot commit suicide in the regular way....)

My point exactly.

The players point would probably be: "Im playing my Character in the way he would feel obligated to deal with such opponents".

But how can you deal with them, if you are dead?

I'd play it straight. If some of them end up dying, others might run away and learn from it. If they all end up dying then they can make new characters. Ether way, you've set the tone you (presumably) want, and your game will only benefit from that in the long run. And playing a fanatic who dies bravely for his cause, is a good 'war story' for the player.

springfaetter said:

Let them die. You can start with a rally point and then just point out how the situation is and that it doesn't look good. As long as they are making an informed choice then it's fine. They may make it and then it's just awesome. But just imagine, if the chance of death wasn't there then it wouldn't be awesome at all.

I say, let the dice do the talking and see what happends. If they die they die. When the first player character goes down you could throw in a rally step and give them a shot at trying to escape again.

But throwing yourself in against all odds is stupid. Their main problem is then, that stupid is rather lethal in warhammer

Playing a Fanatic character can be allot of fun but the GM can't interfear when hes doing something fanatic because then hes just ruining the fun for the player.

If a player wants to play a fanatic you need to explain to the whole group that they are responsible for keeping him alive, this can creat alot of rolplay with the other players running desperately around trying to fix the situastion or trying to convince the fanatic not to do stuff.

No player really wants to kill his charcater (or if he does you should allow him to do it), so he will grab at any excuse he can get not to do the suicidal stuff.

Remember, fleeing from a fight as a religious fanatic, or even a slayer is not bad/poor roleplaying. But not letting the experience affect your character afterwards, THAT is bad roleplaying!

Even a troll slayer will flee from some fights, but the shame, oh lordy the shame!

So with this in mind, if they chose to fight, let them, and let the die if the dice says so. Nothing will ruin the remainder of a campaign more, than for the players to know that no matter how stupid they are, the GM will always save them.

I don't think suicidally fanatical necessarily equals 'stupid' in the WW. The threat of Chaos is a real one and a fate, to many minds, much worse than death. That sort of character has a place in the game, istm, and it's perfectly fair to want to run a high risk of sacrificing your life for the cause. The GM shouldn't be killing these characters because they're stupid or because they have made a mistake, they should be killing them because that is the nature of the world.

That encounter is way too hard for 3 players (the average group). Freaking 8 featherd fiends, Bobo, and the cultists!

I think the ritual should be slowed, or even stopped if the player chooses to simply tackle the cult leader or cover his mouth, it should cancel anything he is doing, take his full attention away.

First of all: Thanks for all your contribution to the subject!

I'm generally agreeeing with all of you.

During the encounter, the Smuggler actually succeded (With a Sigmars comet), to force feed the cult Leader with some of the dirt and rubble he found. - A great idea - that could be made real by winning a contested strength check followed up by a skullduggery vs. agility check. This kept the cult Leader out of the picture for a few rounds.

Thre are seweral things going on at the same time:

Three of the Fiends have already been transformed. Two are standing passively by waiting for transformation. The rest, except one, have died to the hands of the adventures.

The cult members take turns guarding Bobo and the Leader. Bobo has actually lost quite a bit of life without becoming "a pretty boy", and i currently flying away from the main action.

What I plan to do:

Bobo will fly away from the center of the action and transform, while the rest of the cult members try to guard their Leader

Some questions:

1. How will the cult members react if their belowed Bobo flees or dies?

2. Schould the leader make som kind of toughness check to even be able to speak properly?

.

If Bobo dies, options for the cult followers range from: they fly into a rage and attack; they scream in despair and run, they fall to their knees and beg forgiveness saying it was all Bobo's magic compelling them. It's probably a good time for Rally step in any event.

A random approach to be less GM fiaty is to give them all the Demoralized condition and then roll a misfortune die for each - blank they flee if feasible , surrender otherwise (50%), bane they attack, failure they actually get a Frenzy instead of Demoralized and attack.

Overall, I put it on the player of a fanatic to roleplay their way to surviving, not expect the GM to design around them. The GM shouldn't design death traps either, but the GM is not obligated to run a campaign in which at least a temporary retreat is never necessary. That wouldn't be realistic and certainly wouldn't be Warhammer.

If you use any system other than "create character with same number of advances", you can reward a player who "dies in manner fitting to PC" with bonus makeup advances for their new character (not to put them ahead of others, but less far behind).

For the leader, use whatever you would use for a PC in same circumstance. If you would let PC make an Average Resilience, let leader etc. I try to put this to the Players as often as I can - "so if a couple of sessions from now you ended up with a mouthful of something stopping you from talking as needed to save your life, what would the check be....?" They probably won't - but if they insist it's a Daunting check - oohhh, they so will be in that situation.

Boehm said:

Amen. I have a Zealot in my party, this guy , and he's no idiot (figuratively speaking) if a follower of Sigmar dies an unnessacary death isn't that a victory to chaos? I guess it depends on the crazy level of your fanatics. I believe that a fanatic should weigh his options regardless of craziness. If it gets his men killed that reduces his strength to fight evil, perhaps they wish to preserve themselves so they can fight again with added zeal? A fanatic PC sacrificing himself would only sacrifice himself to benefit others, the difference being that the fanatic would go to his death with his head held high and faith in his heart rather than grim determination of a less religious player character.

If the party looks like they could get there way out of it they shoulld retreat as well, Sigmar represents unity and strength, both of which apply when there are numbers involved. A priest of Sigmar can't lead his flock if he is dead.

Fenderstat said:

Nice job on your character - and your little updates regarding his thoughs and prayers ...

Boehm said:

Congratulate angrydragon when you see him next of the forums, he's the one who writes it as it's his character. I just record (the increasingly long) list of plot important NPCs he kills in the service of "Sigmar". Two of the other pc's think he's a closet serial killer hiding behind his church.

well thank you" klaus" is is in my top 3 characters i have ever played and thats saying a lot as i have bin roll playing for 25+years and have had close to 30 characters