My GM just doled out a big pile of XP to my Kill-Team and I asked what Ciphers and Lores people had or were taking because I was considering grabbing some for my Dark Angels Devastator. I was stunned when a fellow player told me his Imperial Fists Assault Marine could take Forbidden Lore Traitor Legions for a quarter of the cost that my Dark Angel could. He can get the skill and take it up to +20 for less than it costs me to simply unlock the skill!

I looked at all the Chapter Advance tables in the Core rules and those for the new chapters in First Founding and no one else has any Lore's even close to that cheap. Some of the one in First Founding have Forbidden Lores with costs of 200 for the Skill, 300 for the +10 and 400 for +20, and the Dark Angels have Forbidden Lore Adeptus Astartes at 200 for each level, but those are as close as it gets?

Is there a game-balance reason or setting reason why Forbidden Lore Traitor Legions is SO much cheaper for Imperial Fist characters? It just seems to be way outside the norm for the cost of Forbidden Lore skills, even those on the Chapter Advance tables.

Thanks!

Imperial Fists get shat upon in literally every other way. You can go Deathwing to get Signature Wargear TDA and you're complaining about Lore cost?

Wait until he sees the Tactics costs. He's gonna clutch his heart and fall over backwards. Just kidding, no offense intended.

I have no idea if that is justified, I am not that familiar with the whole story of the IF. Suffice to say that the IF crunch as a whole has been the source of some grief around here.

Alex

Haha! I realize the question sounds like a complaint but it honestly more out of curiosity. I also run Deathwatch, and as a GM I tend to value Lore Skills (and Knowledge Skills in other games) pretty highly. Most of the Chapter Advance lists give access to Skills and Talents earlier than the character would get them from any of the other Advance Tables, but I'm hard pressed to find any that give as steep a discount to anything (When compared to cost on General Space Marine or Deathwatch Tables), Active Skill, Lore Skill or Talent. And thats why I asked what the reason for that might be.

As for my particular Dark Angel, I'm not sure that Deathwing is in the Emperor's Tarot. Being accused of Insubordination and Treason by one's Ultramarine Squad Leader doesn't do good things for one's career.

I admit I do the same with characters. I like to have Lores. Not sure about the Fists' lore stuff but they were pretty instrumental in the defense of the Palace, the Scouring, and IIRC specifically hate a couple traitor legions so hard, so they might know their chosen enemy better than most.

Meh, your bosses don't care what some smurf thinks.

Kshatriya said:

You tell that to the tribunal that found me guilty of Insubordination (But not Treason, thank the Emperor!) and gave me what is effectively the Reclaiming the Lost Deed (House-ruled, because this was well after Character Creation).

I'd think that Dark Angels feel that only they may properly judge their Brothers.

One primary requirement for induction into the Deathwing/Ravenwing is that you can keep your yap shut.

Alex

Ha, true.

Kshatriya said:

This is what I was going to say.

The IF have a long history of direct action against multiple different traitor legions, especially the Iron Warriors.

Just been reading the Lexicanum

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Fists

So they also hate the Alpha Legion according that, and took the Emperors wounding very badly, so likely hold that against the Black Legion or Traitor Legions in general.

Could also be that they have access to most extensive and secret records of all of whole heresy and later engagements, that are kept on Earth.