Hello battle brothers and girls in power armor who never take out the armor :3 (Female gamer first option when we told her no girls into the astartes)

I have a rule problem I am a Rank4 Dark angel with SWG Storm Bolter and I got the Weapon charm pag 103 First founding.

Now I know accurate only applies to single shoot but Do both hits from thw storm bolter in single shoot benefits from the extra damage yes? no? why?

We are in a kind of RAW gaming table, we are all confortable with this but at this point we are kind of confused.

Please discuss.

Accurate storm bolters shoots a single shoot after taking the aim action.

How do I resolve accurate damage??

Montazghul said:

Interesting question, I am not sure there is a clear RAW solution.

The storm quality simply grants you double hits and double ammunition consumption, it is not automatic fire. In addition, a single dodge will dodge both shots; on single shot you don't have to worry about autofire dodge rules and on autofire you dodge two hits per DoS of your dodge. The hits also strike very close to the same spot, which would imply fluff wise they'd both be accurate shots. Thus you could argue that both hits benefit from accurate.

However, one could easily argue that the accurate damage bonus would only apply to one hit, as the storm quality provides a 'bonus hit' that would be tacked onto the end much like the explosive damage is to hordes.

Personally, I'd go with the latter, as it feels better to me because adding accurate to storm feels like a cheap form of stacking.

Charmander said:

RAW it applies to both and is legal. For game balance any GM would be advised to have it only apply to one shot. This is an issue that FFG MIGHT WANT TO NOTICE AND ADDRESS IN THE NEXT ERRATA.

Also: OMG Accurate Arcane Meltaguns (as per RoB requisition rules) with Felling(1).
OMG. Master-crafted Arcane Meltagun with Weapon Charm and Felling(1):
2d10+16 Pen 12, Accurate, Felling (1). Means you can easily get quite frequently generate 4d10+16=29 damage points. A Chaos Marine will have a soak of 4 against it, a Chaos Terminator that is beyond short range will have 7. With Fire For Effect the beast can shoot twice per round. If you can snipe Daemon Princes with that, they'll be very, very angry. Forunately for you they will be very dead soon.

You pay 55 req for the weapon. Deal.

Alex

According to the DW core book the Accurate weapon quality has two effects if the wielder aims with the weapon first.

1. A +10% additional bonus to an attack.

2. Bonus damage to a single shot from a basic weapon.

With storm weapons, a 'single shot' translates to two rounds but it is still a standard attack. So I'd have no problem with Accurate and Storm qualities stacking but players and GMs should not allow the combination to accomplish feats that are not stated in the rules (such as accurate damage suddenly applying to full auto attacks).

Decessor said:

I don't think anyone is claiming this. Still, I find it rather scary that by RAW currently, it does appear that accurate and storm could stack to allow for a total bonus of +4d10 across two separate hits. In my opinion this is a bit much, even if TB is applied twice (as the increased chance of RF is simply too good).

Personally, I would house rule that the accuracy bonus is fine on Storm (as clearly, yes, by the quality of the weapon, overall accuracy could be increased), but no on the bonus damage. Or rather, I would only allow the bonus damage to apply to one shot, not both. Effectively, you're getting the best of both worlds, without the earth shattering effect of accurate double dipping on damage. Fluff wise, I would say the actual damage bonus of an accurate weapon comes from the fact of how effectively it can be aimed, and that even on a SB, this is apply to only one barrel, not both.

Technically, wouldn't there also be some other talent or ability out there that allows them to fire both shots and only apply TB/AP once? (don't have my book with me and admittadly, its been a while since I last ran DW) If this is the case, an extra +2d10 damage is crazy.

Storm by RAW is just plain broken.

Kshatriya said:

I really dislike these statements. Your not liking a mechanic does not make it mechanically broken in the system.

Storm functions the way a storm weapon fires. Two rounds are fired simultaneously at the same target with enough accuracy that they will both hit. One attack, two rounds fired, two hits. It is powerful, but that's the point of the weapon type. The trade off for that power is that it is easier to dodge since one DoS on a dodge test = two hits dodged.

To me the problem with storm bolters came along when GW started slapping them in the hands of commissars as one handed weapons.

My view, and the house rule that I use in DH & RT (my players who knew 40K agreed), is that storm and twin-linked both should have a drawback built in that bumps the size class by one category, Pistol to Basic, Basic to Heavy, Heavy to Mounted. This has much less impact with DW as a Storm Bolter being reclassified from basic to heavy has little impact on a space marine.

Also remember that you're paying as much req for a storm bolter as you would for a heavy bolter. While when you stack a bunch of talents and specialty ammo on top of it it starts to feel wierd when compared against other weapons (IMO the heavy bolter is a perfect for this comparison), but I don't know if it's broken.

Though when reading the description of "Accurate" in the core rulebook one might be able to hard lawyer that the bonus damage would apply to the attack and not the hit as it reads "...if such an attack also uses the Aim action, it gains an extra 1d10..." However you slice it, it's pretty clear to me that when they wrote storm and accurate they weren't thinking that some guy would later release an accurate weapon with storm that could fire single shots. I would rule it only applies once.

@Kommissar: I think you're talking about Dual Shot - if you have a weapon in each hand you may make a single attack with both of them (and aim); if you hit you roll damage for each, subtract armor from each result, add the remaining damage together then subtract toughness once. But you have to be fighting with two weapons. It's a Rank 7 Assault Marine advance, I don't think anyone else gets it.

As mentioned before, in the lore the description of the technology of the SB and its actual use (in fluff and 40K crunch) clash. Because the one sets-up the SB firing two bolts simultaneously while the actual use/purpose of the SB is enabling move and fire. How that should work is unclear and DW doesn't model the latter at all anyway. DH has settled on the technological side of things.

Going for the move-and-fire option instead is better from a pov of game design. No super-duper damage output but being able to close to the enemy at full-auto and setting yourself up for a charge next round. Much better, much less scary for the GM.

Alex

ItsUncertainWho said:

You're right, I used the wrong word. The word I was looking for was "overpowered." Your other points are well-taken.

ak-73 said:

My reason for liking your and K's idea on this one is mainly because it turns the SB from a 'new way to do more damage' to a pretty unique ability that changes the tactical choice of taking the weapon. Rather than adding up raw damage output and special ammo combos, the player carrying it would be encouraged to think more tactically- which IMO is always a win.