Questions -

1. are there any rules for swimming; I mean as far as I'm concerned either you can swim or you can't (in which case you start drowning).

2. How, exactly do you drown (in game terms)

3. Can dwarves swim (or even float)

I made swimming a pretty rare skill, and falling into water (especially in armour) without the skill deadly [see 'Cheap Tickets'] especially for dwarves. What do you think?

1. I believe you use athletics. That this is the case can be found on the location card "Deep River", in The Gathering Storm and in the core rulebook you can find Swimming as a specialization in Athletics. If you're not trained in athletics you can still splash around and keep afloat, but you're going to have a much harder time.

2. I have not found the specific rules for drowning (if there are any). I remember that once all of my players ended up in deep water I gave them fatigue every time they failed an athletics check and extra fatigue if they got chaos stars or 2 banes. The athletics check was hard (3 challenge dice) since it was a fast river. If any of them were to be rendered unconsious (more fatigue than twice their toughness) they'd be dead if none of the other players rescued them within a couple of rounds, which would require even harder athletics checks. It worked well, none of the players died, but they were all afraid to.

3. In my games, yes they can. I haven't seen any rule or fluff that says they can't. I might consider giving dwarves a couple of misfortune dice, just to represent that they haven't had many chances to practice swimming in the mountains.

If the dwarf was wearing light clothing and not festooned with heavy stuff then I think an Athletics (St) test is just the thing (ranging from 0d for a rainwater cistern or other calm, non-sludge, well defined waterbody to 4d for swimming in the ocean near rocky shoals or a swift river containing submerged tangles or other hazards).

Obviously misfortune can be brought in due to other conditions (light, fatigue, some encumbrance, etc) but common sense does need to be brought in at a certain point.

If someone is wearing heavy riding boots, carrying a backpack full of weapons and draped in a heavy leather jerkin...and has no fortune dice left... drown the f---er . Sure everyone should get a fighting chance but there has to be a certain point where you can just tell a player " if you fall...you will drown...savy ?" and if they bump their heads and fall in the water stick to it and say " he's dead Jim "

There isn't any specific rule that says Dwarfs can't swim, but really there are various dwarfy stereotypes that suggest they'd not be able to. If you guys latched on to one...l say full steam ahead! In your case, the topic came up beforehand and you guys joked and jabbed about how dwarfs couldn't swim. Then (in typical WFRP style) they had to look that joke full in the face and see the grim reaper in it.

If you had decided AS the dwarf fell into the water that dwarfs couldn't swim. I'd say that would have been a total d--- move. But you guys discussed it beforehand. I'd say your conscience should be clear, and that the surviving dwarf should invest in some inflatable floatation bladders. Of course he should have some appropriately reverent and so-serious dwarf name for them...and get uproariously pissed if anyone makes a joke about his water-wings.

Dark Comedy should be the term to latch on to here...not Rules Mastery :-)

Callidon, I love the idea of dwarven water-wings, so un-dwarvish and open to abusive language. There would have to be a suitably culturally-sensitve name for them - aqua ambulatos ? Natans ambulus ?

Are there any Runesmiths out there who might design some suitably impressive floaties for a dwarf (in leather of course)

I'll hop on Strange Eons when I get home this evening and see what I can come up with reg. You still at the same email address? I'll just fire it through when I am done :-)

I am thinkingn something along the lines of a Dwarven mizu gumo....but one that actually allows for walking on water not the glorified kick pads the real things were.

I can never seem to get the image uploader to work on this dang forum. So here is a link to a card I made for "Gahndan's Flotsamtractulators" or...water booties for those that wish to be added to the book of grudges.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/sflotsamtractulators.jpg/

Basically I envision them fitting like greaves around the calf area. The hoses connect to a metal flute that is the air intake and the pocket watch is a pressure gauge. If one were to have a portable bellows pump (not unlikely for a dwarf mind you) you can input the bellows pump nozzle into the belt's air intake flute and begin to force air through the pressure gauge/check valve, through the hoses and into the greaves. They then begin to contract down toward the ankle and expand outward as the air is forced in. The overabundance of straps is to keep the leg centered and secure in the expanding air-bladder and wood disk.

The end result is something that allows Dwarfs that propper advantage they need in marine warfare. The wearer will sink to about their thighs in water but will be able to essentially trudge through the watery medium quite steadily. The buoyancy of the "Water Booties" and the way they are intended to be used can be disorienting and clumsy to anyone not properly trained in their use. The inflation process takes (as much time as seems reasonable in your opinion)

Without training it is highly unlikely that the Flotsamtractulators can be so much as inflated properly. However, the construction materials used to make them are such that it DOES help even in the un-inflated condition. But they really shine in the hands...er...on the legs of the enlightened.

Sadly my art skills are complete shite so there is no image to go along with it :-(

Dear C,

love the card. However, you are obviously referring to the Mk I Flotsamtraculators. The Mk II's (or ladies Flotsamtraculators) are

'a number of flattened rubber hoops sewn onto a

pair of leather underpants. There is an abundance

of straps and shiny buckles, and each ring has a

small pipe expertly attached, which extend to a wide

belt that features a small metal flute shaped buckle

attached to a pocket watch'.*

However, where the Mk II's differ is that they are designed to be worn discreetly under the trousers, much like a suspender belt. They can be easily inflated by repeated pumping of an air reservoir concealed in the lining of the trouser pocket and allow the wearer to float effortlessly on all bodies of water. Though less advantageous in waterborn combat than the Mk !'s due to their lower flotational position (around thigh height as opposed to calf), they are nevertheless a vital component in the wardrobe of a well equipped dwarven adventurer.

( Unfortunately, the Mk II's cannot be worn whilst on horseback, necessitating removal of said garment before mounting).

*Much like the mark I's

I will endeavour to make a card for this useful item, as well as the "Bawaaghometer'. Unfortunately Strange Eons is a little behind for the mac as opposed to pc version.

There is at least one reference in the WFB army books of dwarves from Barak Vaar being able to swim.

Yeah but a dwarf wearing water boots is infinitely more hilarious Aido :-).

I was mostly working alongside reg's group deciding that dwarfs couldn't swim. Maybe it's just the dwarfs of Karak Azgaraz in their version of Warhammer? Who knows. The point shouldn't be whether or not WFB, WFRP 1st, 2nd, 3rd edition say a dwarf can swim (though it makes total sense for Barak Var since...well they're the navy and all). I personally wouldn't hamper any dwarfs around my table. They've already got to make out with bearded chicks so letting them swim is fine by me. That being said I could also get behind having dwarfs sink like a stone as long as it was brought up beforehand (which reg's group did). Then we got onto the topic of floatation devices.

P'raps the dwarves of Barak Var all wear the discreet ladies flotation device? (Can you imagine, a big line of dwarven marines on the edge of a sinking ship with their hands in their pockets pumping wildly. That would be an image that would stay with me a long time).

Started as a bit of fun, really, making dwarves in my world sink like stones. .Mind you I can't see any self respecting dwarf wearing rubber underwear (unless they are very old or the inventor). They'd just look for a spar of wood, or more likely drown!

Bearing in mind that in the real world it wasn't commong for sailors, marines etc. to be able to swim until relatively recently, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most Old Worlders can't swim either. Unless they've had a reason to learn or a lifestyle that has given them the opportunity and inclination to do so.

And if you look at it like that, then it's highly unlikley that 'normal' Dwarves would be able to swim. The most likely candidates are probably 'adventurers' who would learn as adults that it can be very handy. I don't see that as a reason to prevent dwarf players from taking a swim skill or specialisation etc. They could have learned how to swim if they'd seriously wanted to and travelled to somewhere with large amounts of water. But i think that assuming they can't swim is a pretty safe bet.