Beastman Fetish

By Parathion, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

The Beastman Fetish allows the hero to reroll one single die during his turn.

How is the timing if the hero attacks a monster, and the OL wishes to Dodge?

The basic rules say that under no circumstances one die is rerolled more than once, so you have to decide whether the hero is allowed to reroll prior to the Dodge (which would have to leave out the single re-rolled die) or whether the OL dodges first, making the Fetish useless for that particular attack.

Any opinions here? Timing questions were only answered if two effects affect the same player who then gets to choose.

There are some heros who are allowed to reroll certain single attack dice as well, the timing problem should be the same here.

I'm sorry, but did someone actually name a Feat card (which I assume this) "Beastman Fetish"?

Nope, it´s an item (Other) included in ToI.

Parathion said:

Nope, it´s an item (Other) included in ToI.

Good God, that's even worse that its an item. You would think they would have used a word that didn't have such potentially different (and humorous I might add) connotations to it for something involving Beastmen.

Fetish actually didn't have any sexual meaning until Freud came along (I think he was the first to use the term in that way, anyway)

Before then it refered to a small item that represented a larger one (a voodoo doll is an example of a fetish) or alternately a magical object that offers protection. Nothing wrong with calling an item "beastman fetish" :-)

Oh I know, I'm just wondering if anyone at FFG in the office thought of the alternate when making that item.

Although there isn’t a definitive FAQ on this I would say that the Fetish activates first, the player gets to re-roll a die of his choosing, and then the overlord may choose to re-roll any dice in the attack with the exclusion of the die that was re-rolled.

Parathion said:

There are some heros who are allowed to reroll certain single attack dice as well, the timing problem should be the same here.

I believe those heroes (Trenloe the Strong and Lyssa) specifically say on their cards that their abilities cannot be used if the attack is aimed or dodged. However, there are also some new weapons in ToI (the Ripper (copper) and the Bow of the Hawk (silver)) that also allow a single attack die to be re-rolled, and I don't think they have any such provision. There's also the "Deadeye" ability in the custom hero rules that allows a partial reroll with nothing specified about how it interacts with other rerolls.

Anyway, this may have changed in later printings of the rules, but the ancient PDF doesn't actually say that no die can be re-rolled more than once, it says that no attack may be re-rolled more than once. One could certainly have a lively debate over whether an effect that only lets you reroll a single die counts as "re-rolling the attack" or not, but the scenario where the hero rerolls one die and then the OL dodges but cannot reroll that one die again is out either way.

If you want to rule that a single-die-reroll still counts as "re-rolling the attack," so that you can't use that and a dodge (or aim, for that matter) on a single attack, then I think the most reasonable interpretation is that the dodge or aim (if present) overrides the smaller reroll; this is consistent with the precedent set by Trenloe and Lyssa.

If you want to rule that the above effects don't count as "re-rolling the attack," and therefore can be stacked with "full" re-rolls like aim and dodge, then you still have the issue of order. Since no order is specified, the most neutral way to play that would probably be to say that the re-rolls are resolved in the order they are declared. This has a danger of forcing opponents to race to be the first one to say "I want to reroll," but since re-rolling last is generally more advantageous, I don't think it will be a big deal. If neither side is willing to re-roll first, then no re-rolls occur and the attack is resolved as originally rolled.

Of course, this is all conjecture; there's no official rules for this, as far as I know.

"Whenever there is a question of timing, such as whether
an event card can be triggered before a hero can take an
action, etc., the event card always receives precedence
as long as the overlord player declares his intent to play
the event card in a timely fashion."

Unfortunately, the likely issue of tactical relevance is whether one side can choose to always go last , not whether one side can choose to go first , and I don't see how that quote helps us answer that.

Antistone said:

Unfortunately, the likely issue of tactical relevance is whether one side can choose to always go last , not whether one side can choose to go first , and I don't see how that quote helps us answer that.

I agree, I don't think that quote covers something like this. I think your earlier response was the best answer.