Bionic Heart says that you gain +1 toughness to the body location [page 177]

What does that mean? +1 Armour?

Body locations have toughness? Am I missing something?

It's the body location's toughness BONUS, so 1 more soak when something hits you in the body, etc.

See p. 176. Cybernetics add +2 to the Tougness Bonus at the location they're implanted at after Unnatural Toughness. So if your Astartes had Tougness 40 and a bionic right leg, your TB on your body, head, arms, and left leg would be 8 (4 x 2 from Unnatural Toughness) and 10 on the right leg [(4 x 2) + 2).

The bionic heart isn't as sturdy as most implants so as an exception to the general rule that implants improve your TB at that spot by +2, the bionic heart only improves the TB at the Body location by +1. With Toughness 40, a bionic heart and a bionic right leg, for example, your TB to the head, arms, and left leg would be 8, your body would have TB 9, and your right leg would have TB 10.

Thank You!

Please excuse my blond moment!

No problem. =) Lots of complicated rules, we've all been there.

A bionic lung should give you the full +2 to the body location, if you are only interested in that.

I wonder if they're intended to stack? Bionic lungs + bionic heart = +3 TB to the Body location?

Seems a little broken/too much. I'd say best bonus applies unless I see errata saying they stack.

remember that it's after unnatural toughness and the errata specificaly states they don't stack.

Knew it was after Unnatural. Didn't know about that errata. Thanks!

Nathiel said:

True. So with a Toughness of 40 = 4TB + 2 from bionic leg = 6, not 10 Would be insane for a Techmarine o.0 could see a Techmarine hitting 30-35 Damage reduction before pen <.<

Nathiel said:

Nathiel said:

True. So with a Toughness of 40 = 4TB + 2 from bionic leg = 6, not 10 Would be insane for a Techmarine o.0 could see a Techmarine hitting 30-35 Damage reduction before pen <.<

No it'd be 10. (Base times Unnatural modifier) plus 2 from the bionic. [(4 x 2) + 2] = 10.

Re: stacking - that just means that having 3 head-installed bionics doesn't grant independent +TB from all of them. You just use the best one. You still get your normal TB.

Just clarification:

You may gain no more than +2 Toughness bonus to any one location from any number of bionics.

Cybernetics (page 176): add the following sentence: “If two
or more implants are installed in the same location (such as the Body
location), the +2 Toughness Bonus applies only once .”
[sic, emphasis mine]

Kshatriya said:

What about the last 3 lines + 2 from bottom of page 176 to top 177? In the core rulebook

Grimze said:

That's simply referring to the bonus effect from a limb not stacking with a duplicate, e.g. an Exceptional Quality Bionic Arm provides a +10 bonus to Strength Tests, but having two such Arms wouldn't provide a +20 bonus. You still have full TB (i.e. 4x2 then +2 for Bionic), because the replacement limb is built to be at least as strong as the original, but tougher.

On a (sort of) related note, the Respirator Unit a TM gains as part of his Mechanicus Implants provides all of the effects of the Bionic Respiratory System, but with a different description. Are the two stackable (different systems), or non-stackable (same system with a different name) - meaning that all Tech-Priest/Marine/Heretek/Explorator types should be starting with +2 TB to the Body?

Plasmafest said:

Mechanicus implants are 1 of the 2 specialty special abilities you can purchase. Its a good question, I would say yes, simply because of its description allong with all the other bionic stuff you get as well, but a clarification would be nice. So if you decided to choose that ability you'd get all those wonderfull bionics stuff, if you chose the other ability, well tough luck. Note: craftsmanship would be limited to renown as normal, a rank 1 techmarine can not claim his mechanicum implants are exceptional just because he gets them for free.

Note that the techmarine gets both abilities. it does not say 'choose one' in that section and there is no errata for the techmarine entry.

I wouldn't let the starting implant give +2 TB to body. Techmarines get enough goodies without that.

Nathiel said:

Congratulations, you've just found a typo.

Page 23 of the main rulebook.

"Each Speciality has a selection of Special Abilities. Choose one and note it down on your character sheet." [sic]

Which easily overides the lack of instructions on the techmarine speciality page.

I agree with Kshat above. Despite it sounding like it should have +2 TB I'd prefer not to hand that out for starting equipment. So I say 'sounds like it should' BUT 'it doesn't until clarified or errata'd by FFG'.

I don't even think it sounds like it should. It's a Trait, not an individual implant.

Also I think specifics on the Techmarine entry trump the general rules on picking.

There are no specifics.

Nothing in the Techmarine entry says you get both. It just does not have the "choose one" the other entrys do.

With no rule, statement, or indication whatsoever actually supporting "they get both", the rule on page 23, which state every character must choose one special ability, takes precedent.

If techmarines were going to get a special ability allowing them to take BOTH of their special abilities, in contradiction to the basic rules and differing from the other specialities there would be a rule stating so in the Techmarine entry. There is not, one absent statement does not imply another absent statement is correct, especially when another, actually existing, statement clearly contradicts the second absent statement.

Frankly I find it insane that the rules might support a Techmarine "choosing" not to have Mechanicus implants given the fundamental nature of that Specialty. In-universe, they all have those implants, just like all Tech-Priests and Explorators. Not having Blessed by the Omnissiah also means you're not proficient with a piece of your Specialty-issue wargear...equally insane.

Kshatriya said:

+1. Choosing not to take Mechanicus Implants, Electo-Grafts et al is choosing not to be a genuine Techmarine, just some faker who's good at building walls but was never inducted and hasn't got a clue.

Well, feel better about it.

After delving deeply into the rules a little more, I am open to believing both these abilities are indeed given to techmarines. Your arguments about "he should logically be able to do both" aside (considering assault marines should logically be able to do more damage to hordes as easily as to single guys, and apothecaries should be able to heal better just as well as creating poisons, and tactical marines should just as well shoot better as command better, and.... etc.) it makes sense only when considering the servo arm the techmarine gets, and mechandrite talent to use it. Although, the Techmarine can buy the same talent at rank 0 with his starting xp.

As for the +2 TB question about the respirator: No, the techmarine shouldn't get a +2 TB right off the bat even with these implants.

Now the rules still seem to point to choosing one, as there is no specific wording stating the techmarine gets both, which should be present if true. Clarification is needed. But feel free, as always, to play it however you wish.

I've just literally never seen it played as either/or for Techmarines.