Hey everyone. I searched the forums and didn't find an answer for my question. This is my first post so be gentle =P.

I made a dark angel when we first started our campain. We recently got the First Founding book and I'm interested in the Deathwing Terminator andvanced specialty.

The question I have is you can get this specialty at rank 4 and 40 renown, but most of the weapons for terminator armour say they require 60 renown to requisition. So when you outfit your armour with signature wargear all you can really take is a power sword, storm bolter or heavy flamer. None of the good stuff.

Does this specialty allow you to access all terminator equipment early since the armour itself is supposed to be 60 renown as well?

xerxies said:

xerxies said:

I really doubt it. It'd explicitly say that if that were allowed. I mean...you already permanently have Termie armor and you can already get a power fist (among other great wargear like the thunder hammer/storm shield combo or the double lightning claws to make yourself an assault terminator). I think that's more than enough good stuff. I certainly wouldn't lower the Renown requirements on the CML and the assault cannon just because you're a Deathwing.

UGH, this coding.

xerxies said:

Actually, the requirements is Rank 4 with Teminator honors (the Crux Terminatus). Which means you need 60 renown to become a Deathwing Terminator. The main rulebook specifies space marines are not even considered for Crux Terminatus until they acquire 60+ renown.

So, there really isn't any issue or disconnect.

herichimo said:

That would be true if it was the Deathwatch giving me the honors and armor. It is the Dark Angels chapter that gives me the armor so renown shouldnt have an effect. Why put the requirement at 40 rank 4 when you need 60?

xerxies said:

Reread the blurb on the Crux. It doesn't differentiate over who gives it to you. It appears to be a general thing for all non-GK SMs. I don't recall seeing a Renown requirement in the Deathwing section though but my books aren't in front of me. And even if DAs can get Terminator armor at 40 Renown that's still no reason to lower the Renown requirement of the assault cannon and CML.

Just looked at First Founding. Nowhere does the Deathwing entry say you can get in at 40 Renown. It just says the requirements are "Dark Angel only, Rank 4+, Terminator honors." The Core book calls out that Space Marines aren't considered for receiving the Crux Terminatus at lower than 60 Renown (Famed), and Terminator armor itself has a Renown value of Famed on the Requisition table.

I have no idea where you're getting 40 Renown from.

Poopy! I thought the Crux was 40, that's where I was getting that number. There is no way I will have 30 more renown in one rank =P.

Thank you all for the clarification.

Rites of Battle Page 206 Bottom of the page. Rank 4+ and Renown 40+ and do something totaly bad-ass.

Nathiel said:

Hm, discrepancy between books. Not really surprised, just blah.

Side note: even if you can get the Crux at 40 Renown, that's not itself a reason to lower the Renown requirement for the CML and assault cannon. And strangely you could earn the Crux at 40 Renown and not get to requisition TDA until 60 Renown under the RoB rule. Being a Deathwing might be a loophole to the latter since some getting Signature Wargear from Specialty/Deed goes around the Renown system.

I'm playing an unofficial Deathwing Terminator, a librarian from a chapter that does not officially announce itself as a Dark Angel successor but has a handful of marines in the know. He was coming in as a replacement for my very dead assault marine from the same chapter and the GM had suggested the alternate rank as a possibility for that character. So I was able to enter the rank at reknown 36 and with the Crux Terminatus but I'm not allowed to use the terminator armour until I reach distinguished. The back story is that he suffered a loss of face in a recent bloody conflict where several 1st company veterans he was attached to were killed.

As for weapons, he's not an assault marine and isn't interested in lightning claws or power fists. He has a force sword and can choose between storm bolters and heavy flamers when he regains access to his terminator armour. The heavy weapons that require more reknown will be offlimits until I get that much reknown as far as I know.

Edit: I reached this thread through google search and didn't note the dates. Inadvertent necromancy.

I've read the post here and let me tell you i'm trouble…

Storm bolter, energetic sword and heavy flamer aren't good weapons?

Strange …

Maybe you should play with those once in a while and maybe you will see that weapon are fine if serving there aim.

Heavy flamer in vast open space with range weapon will not be good but indoor or in a maze like place you will just fry the whole opposition awy, make their blood boil and walk on their ashes and by the way energetic sword and storm bolter are the basic weapon of sergent in first compagny. They are certainly not so bad.

I for one think they are good weapons. I went for the alternate rank knowing that would be my weapon selection in terminator armour. Force sword and storm bolter will be my librarian's normal loadout, in either terminator or power armour. An assault marine would have no problems either. But if I wanted to play a devastator with the same constraints, then my options would be very limited. Storm bolter which he can't apply his specialty abilities to, or a heavy flamer with its limited range.

As it stands, I'm quite happy with my librarian and his gear.

Weapons could be good and bad depending when and where they are used.

Heavy flamer is a mass destruction weapon and can be pretty horrible with deathwing alternate path. If my memory is good one of the talent you can select when mission begin is to make your attack more difficult to dodge (-20% if correct). Add it to the talent for flame weapon and you get a -40% Ag test to not cath fire…

Even eldar begin to have trouble this way.

More, to dodge a range weapon you need to succeed to your dodge test and have a movement capable of putting you out of danger… With heavy flamer that could also begin to be quite difficult. With almost 500 m² of aera in fire with a maximun of 16,20 meter wide a heavy fire shot is a monstruosity… Always ask myself why heavy flamer and maybe flamer do not have the devastating trait, because believe me or not( I never faced a flamer but a house fire) but fire is quite impressive and molten, glue like prometheum with 1800° celcius is quite a nightmare for anything but rocks and dirt.

Look at nature all run away in front of fire, insects, animals.