I think I'm starting to get a recurring pattern with my magic user during roleplay sessions. He seems to want to use magical sight all the time.

Talk to a celestial wizard- use magical sight to make sure he is telling the truth about him being from the celestial order.

Walk into a room- use magical sight to see if he senses anything with magic.

Etc.

I have talked to him outside of a session to tell him how he is using magical sight is gamey.

This is my first shot at GM-ing. This is his first time roleplaying. He has played RPG video games though.

How can I explain this ability better to not hurt are sessions. Or am I thinking wrong about the use of magical sight?

Hi,

I had a player playing a wizard recently, sadly he died of diseases (the wizard not the player).

We agreed that a house rule of 3 purple dice for general scanning with magical sight balanced the possible problem without restricting the player. Means that ts tough to pick things up if you're not focussing on something specific, it might not work if you're a low level wizard, and the possibility of getting banes and chaos stars means it can start tiring the character with stress. Overuse leads to a weary wizard.

Hope that helps.

master yoda said:

Just make sure that the information provided by Magical sight is not the end-all-be-all. For example, a successful Magical Sight test will not always "make sure he is telling the truth about him being from the celestial order". Magical Sight is about viewing and interpreting the Winds of Magic and how they are flowing.

Here's how I view Magical Sight, etc. (IMO) A Wizard may or may not be emanating or altering the Wind of their color naturally. Normally, yes, a Wizard most likely has greater traces of their associated Wind near them (representing their Power pool leaking out/replenishing) However, just about any Wizard can consciously suppress this. Additionally, the Winds of Magic are fickle, sometimes ebbing and flowing, so a concentration of a particular Wind around a person might in fact have absolutely nothing to do with that person.

So, how well the Wizard succeeds at their Magical Sight check will matter on how well they interpret the Winds. Think of Magical Sight like Tracking in a densely populated forest. A tracker might see a deer print in the dirt. This does not mean it is the deer they are tracking, nor that is it a recent deer in the area, nor that it is a buck or a doe, or how many antlers, etc. The easiest to say is that they can see is that a deer was there since the last rainfall, and the direction the deer was most likely moving in. Better successes might lead to information such as how heavy the deer was (by depth/size), perhaps speed (space between tracks) etc.

Feel free to also give plenty of "nothing unusual" responses. Also, feel free if you want to give corruption if Chaos Stars are rolled, or perhaps temporary insanity, as the wizard is opening themselves more directly to the winds making themselves more vulnerable to them. If you've read Jim Butcher's Dresden series, maybe think of a Wizard's sight being similar to how he describes it. It is an overwhelming experience, and not something to use lightly as it can greatly disorient the Wizard.

Just some suggestions. I wouldn't stifle the wizard too much, as it would be like preventing the ranger from making tracking checks in the wilderness, but you certainly don't want it to slow down the game by being over used.

I explained to my player pretty much the following...:

1) If Magic Sight gave away auras at will, then no wizard would ever be able to turn to the "Dark" side, and there has been some major examples of this, where the wizards lived in public, and yet practiced dark magic. Every year you would simply have wizards be "checked" for darkness, and then executed.

2) Magic flows in all people and all things, but only wizards know how to harness the magic and cast spells. So someone feeling strong emotions would have just as much "Chaotic" energies around him, as a wizard casting a chaos spell. One could even argue the wizard would have less around him, as he has channelled the wind into a spell, and thus "thrust" it away from him.

But this said, there are some things that Magic CAN be used for, and that is with objects (and to some extend people) who act as a nexus for a certain wind. A painting holding a demon trapped will draw all negative energy to it, like a strong magnet, and thus you might also be able to detect faint remains of this energy if the painting has been in a place recently.

Same goes for people. Someone casting a Nurgle spell, would have just as much Nurgle energy around him (in that very moment), as someone who's ill with a fever, but if he keeps casting Nurgle magic the energy will be drawn to him more often. Kinda like if you go down a sewer once, it's easy to wash of, but if you work down there, the smell kinda starts to stick to you.

I also told him, that a Chaos Star can do nasty stuff, if you stick your nose to close to nasty things... He doesn't know what this means, but I will let him take Corruption Test if he rolls Chaos Stars while "sniffing" chaotic energies.

dvang said:

Also, while I agree with this, in that you should never "punish" players for the skills they have. Tracking something as a ranger is much much different to Magic Sight, if Magic Sight is not ruled heavily. The ability to walk into a room and say: "He's a Tze worshipper/practitioner". Is much more potent than the ability to be able to say: "He's been down these stairs, I remember his foot-prints".

The former has no alternative explanations (unless someone has planted Tze dust on him, but then he'd be burned anyway ), but the later can be explained in many ways. He could be sleepwalking, he might not know what the paintings in the basement means etc...

Also the ability to see people's aura, breaks down something fundamental to (at least my version of) Warhammer, and that is the "Enemy Within", normal people hiding their Dark Dark Secrets. These things are something the players should (again in my opinion) deduct from investigation, and not from one dice roll.

So even without over use, one single Magic Sight, can end an adventure after the first scene.

I don't remember the actual guidelines in the RAW, but I recall that they were pretty much good.

Check Winds of Magic for more details.

This said, this is the way I play it, if it can be of some help.

First, when players announce actions, I require them to have their pool in hand already. So quick Observe tests or Magical Sight tests won't interrupt the flow of the story.

Second, the winds of magic are fickle, and omnipresent. I will describe the winds to the player, using inspiration of the moment to do this. Ulgu coalesces in the shadows, Gyran comes with rain and blooming flowers, Hysh radiates from light sources and sources of knowledge, etc... I brush out the obvious.

I ask the player what he is looking for exactly and determine difficulty. I roll difficulty dice secretly. Then I will add detail, if any, based on the success level. But these details will always be fleeting glimpses, maybes and etc. The Winds are moving all the time, and if the Wizard is good and lucky, he may glimpse things out of the ordinary, but just for an instant, before the surrounding winds obscure the object of attention once more.... And remember, Chaos stars can lead to temporary dementia, hallucinations, weird omens... (That comes from V2 actually, but I like it...)

The thing to remember is that using Witch Sight is looking at the stuff of Chaos, and sometimes, Chaos just comes at you ! As Channeling and Spellcasting, Witch Sight has its dangers, even if less potent or frequent.

Lastly, regarding auras. I consider that Wizards will become obvious when they cast or channel magic. Otherwise, they are very hard to spot (Hard or Daunting check). When they cast, the winds come alive around them, so that's much easier to see, especially for spells using a lot of power. Auras of magical objects are faint, usually, and again, might become more powerful when the object is used. (It draws magic in to fuel itself) Some objects are batteries of magic (warpstone, some amulets, wands), these will show more aura.

As a final note, I play dark magic as a black wind or fume, but also as disgusting tar, or a bed of deformed insects, or rotting matter, or visions of ones death and decay, or anything appropriate and spooky that I can think of ! When Wizards use Magical Sight in the presence of strong dark magic, he's in for a nightmarish ride ! If he rolls a Chaos Star or two, he might even be unable to shake out of the Magical Sight and be stuck in the nightmare! No wonder people think wizards are crazy...

In my game magical sight requires awareness. You can't just scan an area and automatically find everything.

Just like a dwarf may be able to see in the dark, or a detective may have a keen eye for detail.

Magical sight just allows a wizard to look at something specific or a specific area and see if there is anything special about it.

Gallows said:

In essence, this is what I am trying to say. Magical Sight is not an automatic "know-all-see-all" ability. It is a skill. Having the ability lets the Wizard be able to view the Winds of Magic, and attempt to interpret them.... much like a ranger looking for tracks in the wilderness. Just because he can see the Winds flowing, does not mean that the wizard can really tell anything about them. Heck, the wizard might not even be able to tell what particular winds are present and in what strength, or notice that a certain Wind flows stronger around an individual, etc.

Except in the most unusual situations, all of the various winds are present at all times in all places, usually twisting and moving in a maelstrom with the others and difficult to pick out from each other. It takes skill to identify a particular Wind from the whole mess, and more to see a pattern to that wind's movements.

You have to make at least a one challenge die check to even tell colour. All the free ability does is tell you when you might want to make a check. Lots of checks make for chaos stars and fun, particularly if the GM is creative with them.

Thank you for the responses.

All of you have giving me great ideas/ thoughts. all of you have helped me a lot. I can swallow the magical sight checks a little easier now.

Why not try describing what he "sees" in abstract ways? Magic doesnt follow the same rules as the rest of the natural world, if you are seeing magic you are viewing an alien forcetrying to interact with a world it was never meant to see that doesnt mean it puts a glowingring around every secret door etc. His magic sight may stumble upon something of note but it wont be a sign saying "I'm a liar" or " press here for free lewts" i't likely to be a series of disconnected images or the sensation of changing winds or maybe even a foul stench.

The way we've been using it is to make it just give a general feel of an area; specialisation might give more detail. As a previous post suggested (old thread), we use a 'colours of magic' wheel with an oversized two-sided token in the centre. On a successful (concealed) magical sight test I push the token towards the predominant colour - failure etc can give no info or false info. Test is at least simple (1d) as there is always the possibility of seeing something scary, and increasing in difficulty according to circumstances; for example, looking in a chaos temple would make it far more likely to see something bothersome, and to be overwhelmed by the rush of magic. Also, why bother, you're standing in a chaos temple.

You could check this post on Andy Laws site for ideas on how to obfuscate how the different winds are flowing around certain items;

http://hapimeses.com/forum/index.php/topic,522.0.html

Alp

The one thing I LOVE about WFRPG (I've only ever played 3e, but have been playing RPGs forever) is how easy it is to add difficulty and quickly change encounters without spending days calculating.

So, your wizard overdoes magical sight? Cool. Let him do it. You know he's doing it. He knows he's doing it.

Chaos knows he's doing it.

One time he uses it: "There seems to be more chaos winds than you'd normally see... but they seem to be wandering, random"

The next time (no matter where he uses it: "The Chaos winds seem to be building. It's as if something is drawing them to this location."

Three, four, five times later: "Chaos winds surround everything here -- people, things. They don't seem to be focused on any one thing. They seem to be focused on everything to the extent that you can barely see any of the other winds, weak as they appear, trying to find purchase in the fog."

You can then give misfortune dice for every magic action.

Hopefully at this point your player has realized that HE'S the one attracting he Chaos winds (simply because he's been using it so often), and it will curb his use for a while.

Of course, to be right bastard, I would then put him in a situation where using Magical Sight makes sense ("One of the eight people in this room is corrupted by Chaos!") And then, should he use Magical Sight, have a demon use him as a portal.

Hey, that's what Chaos would do.

I recall reading, I think on either a mutation or insanity card, that if you keep your Magical Sight open too much you start to go crazy. The Dresden Files series of books has a kind of magical sight that allows a wizard to see the 'true form' of things and other mystical aspects of objects, but the downside is that you never, ever forget it, and every detail is constantly etched into your mind no matter how long a time has passed since you saw it. So you might see something beautiful, you might also seem something absolutely horrific.

That's all to say, you never know when you might need to roll a Fear or Terror check.