Heya peoples.

I've got a few questions about Silent Move and a few about character creation in relation to Silent Move.

Ok. So: All marines come with the skill Silent Move as a starting skill as a basic trained skill. So:

1. Why is it in the Chapter Advances Table? (Raven Guard.) If you already have the skill, why do you need to buy it again?

2. Do I have to buy it to buy the +10 skill upgrade? Or can I buy the +10 skill upgrade outright?

Next thing: Canis Salient: Stealth Operations. (Rights of Battle, p80.)

This Campaign Deed costs 300xp, and gives you +10 kill markers and +1 Renown for every assassination or stealth based mission objective. It also gives you the Talented Silent Move Talent.

So my question about this is; is the Talented Silent Move Talent the same as buying the +10 upgrade?

And does it give you the +10 upgrade?

And if it does, and I take it, can I then buy the +20 skill upgrade without having the buy the +10 skill upgrade?

Thanks.

Gavmando said:

1. FFG has said in other products that some Talents/Skills that characters might start with can be reproduced on tables just in case future supplements feature characters who might use the table but don't have the skill to begin with. Also I guess for completeness's sake it makes sense to have the whole progression rather than just +10 and +20. I dunno, I've always found it dumb and confusing. You don't need to buy it again. It's just there, presumably because if you want have a weird game of Scouts or something, they may not start with Silent Move at all and would need to buy it from some table.

2. You can just buy the +10. You already have the +0; you don't need to buy it again.

Gavmando said:

Buying the Talent is not the same as buying the Skill at +10, though it ultimately provides the same mechanical benefit. The ultimate point is that if you buy Silent Move, Silent Move +10, Silent Move +20, and Talented: Silent Move, your Silent Move Tests will be at +30 before other modifiers (size, environment, etc.) come into play.

Talented: Silent Move is not the prerequisite for Silent Move +20. Silent Move +10 is the prerequisite for Silent Move +20. Buying Talented: Silent Move does not obviate the need to buy Silent Move +10 before you can buy Silent Move +20. They may give the same mechanical effect (a +10 modifier to Silent Move Tests) but they are two different things on a metagame level.

Kshatriya said:

Something else to consider. As an RPG, what happens if you get mind-raped by a psyker, or your mind-wiping (to reduce corruption) treatment goes wrong and you forget a skill you had learned earlier.

Including skills you have trained at rank 1 in the rank 1 advancement charts makes sense. A rank 1 space marine would be able to buy those skills if, for whatever reason, he did not have them or somehow lost them, but if these skills were not listed in the advancement tables, if you didn't have them, or lost them, you'd be unable to learn them through normal means.

Buying the Talent is not the same as buying the Skill at +10, though it ultimately provides the same mechanical benefit. The ultimate point is that if you buy Silent Move, Silent Move +10, Silent Move +20, and Talented: Silent Move, your Silent Move Tests will be at +30 before other modifiers (size, environment, etc.) come into play.

Talented: Silent Move is not the prerequisite for Silent Move +20. Silent Move +10 is the prerequisite for Silent Move +20. Buying Talented: Silent Move does not obviate the need to buy Silent Move +10 before you can buy Silent Move +20. They may give the same mechanical effect (a +10 modifier to Silent Move Tests) but they are two different things on a metagame level.

.....jeeze I hate this forum's code.

Close, but it works just a 'little' differently. When you buy a +10 or +20 skill upgrade you are actually increasing the associated skill for that test. Which does not count against the +/-60 bonus caps as it is not a bonus, you are increasing your attributes.

So: Space Marine with Agi 40 buys acrobatics, and acrobatics +10. When he makes a Challenging (+0) acrobatics test with NO modifiers he needs to roll under 50. While a normal Agility test is still under 40. The +10 to acrobatics makes his agility 50 ONLY when performing an acrobatics test.

Talented on the otherhand gives a player a permanent, all the time, +10 bonus to the associated skill tests. Which counts against the +/-60 bonus caps.

The space Marine above now buys talented acrobatics. The next time he makes a challenging (+0) acrobatics test his agility counts as 50 (because of acrobatics +10) but he gets a +10 bonus to the roll. For a total +10 acrobatics test on an a skill of 50.

herichimo said:

I think you added the bolded part in between when I first read the post and when I went to quote it, heh. You're right about the bold part though, and that's really the only difference between the Skill and Talent: the Talent runs up against the total bonus/penalty maximum, while the Skill +X doesn't interact with it at all.

the space Marine above now buys talented acrobatics. The next time he makes a challenging (+0) acrobatics test his agility counts as 50 (because of acrobatics +10) but he gets a +10 bonus to the roll. For a total +10 acrobatics test on an a skill of 50.

Your math is missing one important point: he needs to make a normal Agility Test (+0). He needs to roll 60 or below for straight success (Acrobatics +10 making his Agi 40 effectively 50 for Acrobatics Tests only, then Talented: Acrobatics adding in a +10 bonus on Acrobatics Tests, for a total target number of 60).

herichimo said:

Yeah, it's awful.

Awesome.

Thanks guys. That's exactly the info I needed.

Kshatriya said:

You're absolutely right about the total goal number for the skill test. I didn't add them together purpously though, to highlight the fact talented gives you a +10 bonus to tests while skill +10/20 raises the associated atribute.