A problem that arose in our last gaming session; just how do you work out righteous fury with a flamer? You don't roll to hit, so if you roll a 10 on your damage die, do you automatically get another D10 worth of damage, or is it impossible to get righteous fury when using a flamer?

Thanks in advance

coves said:

I think there is no clear answer to this in 40K RP. There is 2 schools of thought:

1. Those who think the flamer is already good enough rule that the Agility test to avoid being hit is a replacement for the normal attack roll (and it is because you can try dodge on top of it if you fail your Agility test). Probably the more logical view.
2. Those GMs think that the flaming weapons are relatively weak/unpopular compared to other weapons go with the line of thought that since there is no attack roll, the attack hits automatically and thus RF is confirmed automatically too. Probably the more literal view.

In either case the difference isn't huge and the decision should probably be driven by the question whether flamers deserve a small boost or not.

Alex

There is no rule under the weapon entry saying it doesn't get it. That being said. It would only have a chance of getting RF on the attack portion of the DMG not on following rounds if the target catches fire.as then it is no longer an actual attack

If you feel like keeping the RF rules for the flamer level with the other weapons, you could always have it confirm by having the player roll against BS with the modifiers they WOULD be getting if it were a non-flame weapon, perhaps. Since RF isn't something you really have to justify in in-universe terms, you can just get meta with it.

Im a bit confused on the flamer hits by default? the flamer entry states it has a range and prouts flames up to raneg X. is this focused at a target or does it incinerate an area? can my flame marine gout his flame in a circle around him? affectively becomming a walking circle of flames with a diameter of Range X?? please enlighten me with your knowledge.

Nogard said:

You point it into a direction. Everything in a 30 degree cone will get hit automatically unless they either pass their AG test and get not hit or they manage to dodge out of their area, observing the rules for dodging out of areas of effect. See page 142.

Alex

Ok, wel than it is actually like a 1 target shot but has some AOE effect... I thing given the dodge chance for your opponents after their Agilety fail it is reasonable to state Rightous Fury is automated, ( the D10 = 10 being a full engulvement of the earea in flames ) they mised 2 consecutive tests and now find themselfs in the hottest part of the flamers reach. Id say auto RF is allowed here.

How else would you explain your aiming the flames themselfs? not really, your aiming the gun with an AOE effect. and RF is effecting the damage you do with it not your aim, for a single shot it means being more accurate ( twice balistic skills) .

However contrary to all this marines that get issued to the deathwatch gain hypno training giving them the deathwatch starting talent. this negates the confirm rightous fury. it becomes automatically passed. so even flamers do automatic fury. I dont recal the exact page of the rulebook but its in the core where the starting skills are explained. ( where they also explain the effect of all the marine gene enhancements and organs and their ingame effect, its there on the left side, first colum about 3/4th down )

Nogard said:

FWIW, this is only against xenos, it is not auto-confirmed against chaos or others.

Nogard said:

Well, you're not really aiming flames...

When dealing with flamers and flamethrower weapons you aren't shooting fire out of the gun. Rather you are shooting a stream of liquid that happens to be on fire. The liquid is usually somwhat adhesive or sticky so it would stick to objects it hits and burns hot and long enough to ignite most materials struck.

Flamers fire like super soakers instead of a blowtorch.

Personally, I don't really see the 30 degree cone being a truly accurate representation of firing a flamer. I suppose this could represent the user waving the nozzle back and forth to cover a greater area. The agility test better represents dodging the stream of burning liquid than a billowing cloud of fire, though. But other than intersecting a person with the stream only areas the stream lands on technically should be affected. But since faithfully representing the behavior of a burning liquid being shot at preasure would require some increadibly complex rules I think the 30 degree cone is fine enough. With only a personal house stipulation if a character wish to affect ground area with the flamer, the range of the weapon is decreased to the distance of the area they wish to affect (since the stream is aimed to land at that area, it doesn't go any further).