Are hordes supposed to be slaughtered as much as they are in the game I'm in? Even other players are getting a little annoyed at how much I'm doing at the moment. I average around 70-75 magnitude per round (on a reasonably good round) as a rank 5 ex-devastator dreadnought. Also, before anyone says, 'duh dreadnought', it's not a lot less as a terminator since a lot of it's coming from assault cannon.

You know i don't even know how the damage to the Horde’s Magnitude work anyway to know. I am taking up Wolf Scout and trying to understand how it works with the sudden attack.

Can you give us an example of the math you are using to hit those numbers because I can't see quite where you're going wrong here.

Here's how I see max effect for an assault cannon being fired by a R5 Dev (Dreadnought or not) vs a horde.

hit all 10 times (Assuming all will do damage)

Devastating (1) = 10 more (total 20)

Unrelenting Devestation (1d5) for 5 more (total 25)

Storm of Iron doubles to 50. yes it is pretty extreme but this is assuming max hits and max on your d5.

an 'average' result assuming BS70-75 with max hit bonus vs the horde (+60) is 8 hits and 2-3 on the d5 which would get you 36-38.

I guess two of them with two weapon wielder would get you an average around there and, yes that's pretty freakin disgusting. But when they get pissy about how much damage you can do, just remind them that they can actualy go inside most buldings while you just sit out in the rain... rusting and forgetting who you are... and being targeted by every heavy weapon the enemy can muster. By rank 5 they should be using quite a number of them.

First of all a Dreadnaught shouldn't be allowed in any serious campaign. The fact that you can play it by RAW doesn't mean it's suitable for most kind of DW missions as your main assignment would be sitting around in a vault while your comrades are doing the investigation and stealth work. Then, but only if it's logistically possible, you will be called in to support them in the big battles they can't fight alone and of course you excel in this part, mowing down enemy infantry like no other.

It's like you playing an BMP-T suppot tank and the other players a Spetsnaz Team.

Ok, enough of 'duh dreadnaught' and let us assume your DW Team would be assigned on a special mission in a confined space with hard hitting enemies, or simply an assault mission, otherwise it won't make much sense to use Teminator Armour, it would be pretty stupid from your GM to use Hordes as a threat, because no enemy troops will be able to hurt your Termies and even with SB's you would chew through any Horde in 3 Rounds. So the only purpose of a Horde in this situation is pretty clear: to delay a Kill-Team.

This is the Time for the big baddies!

OK admittedly, I was using an extreme example, and yes Nathiel, that's ballpark what I was on about there (although I forgot to mention metal storm rounds), but even without that, say a regular devastator with storm of iron, a heavy bolter and metal storm rounds can melt hordes. Maybe I just misundertand the use of hordes, but they seem almost redundant in a fight, and that can't be the design of the game.

Metal Storm cannot be used with Assault Cannons (its for bolt weapons only and assault cannons are SP), but I doubt thats the source of your problem.

Overall though, yes, hordes really should be a speed bump. If your GM wants them to be a challenge, then he should not create single large blobs of hordes, but rather use multiple smaller hordes, thus making it impossible for you to mow them all down at once. And if alot of them are > mag 20, then thats alot of nasty extra damage per turn. Also, there should be other strategies (e.g. hordes retreating into ambush killzones with other hordes in waiting). Also, he should add "single target threats" like notable teams with heavy weapons that may very well injure the team.

The point is, if hordes are dying quick, bigger hordes are not the answer. (But it is ok if they are dying quickly, it can get crazy with the right gear/talents)

KommissarK said:

^^This. Hordes are a bump in the road to the bigger threat.

That said, it sounds like your GM hasn't adjusted his hordes to the firepower you're capable of delivering. RoB suggests having two characters if you play a dread- one for less balls out missions and one for heavy support missions. You might want to consider that, or to talk with your GM on ways to build adventures so that your damage dealing fury doesn't overshadow the rest of the players.

If it were me, and I was allowing a dread (or terminators) to be deployed as part of a mission, there would be some heavy hitters on the field. Hordes should be using cover and calling for reinforcements as they see the dread, and all kinds of hell should be landing around the Kill Team as they advance towards their objective. The hordes are there for cinematic purposes, to use up ammo, and to harry the PCs as they try for their primary objective.

But if used smartly even a 'lowly' mag 30 horde can be a threat to a terminator. Look at a group of Fire Warriors, you're looking at 3 attacks doing 3d10+12 Pen 4, semi auto until they take some mag damage. If they're using cover their Armor is going to sky rocket and even things like assault cannons may not dig them out completely. And that's before they call for backup.

Of course metal storm can't be used with assault cannons...oops. But yeah, the way you guys have explaiend it makes sense to me now. Also I *do* have a less balls-to-the-wall character for when we're not murdering things in open field battles.