Considering the description of Jump Packs being loud and bulky I always had this on my mind, but as long as our Assault Marine hasn't tried to fill the scout-role there was no Problem but now one of my players wants to play a Raven Guard.

Soon we will have a Ninja-Marine in our Kill-Team and I will even grant him the Mk 6 Armour for free so he can be beaky and even more stealthy (mainly because it's christmas), but I can't combine the concept of Jump Packs and stealth, so I think of a -10 to concealment and silent move because of the bulk and an additional -50 to silent move when jumping or flying is appropiate.

I know this is rather for the Deathwatch House Rules but maybe I have read over something and there are official rules for Jump Packs and stealth because obviously they aren't stealthy when used.

I've not seen any official ruling, so a house rule does seem in order.

Remember, space marines in power armour have a -30 to silent move for wearing armour with AP greater than 6 (or was it 7?).

But yes, taking off and flying around with a huge jet/rocket engine would probably warrant a further penalty to silent move.

So if you'd add -10 for equiping a jump pack, -50 for using the jump pack, and -30 for wearing heavy armour, thats -90. Which usually is maxed out to a -60, but if he takes stummers or other + to silent move you'd subtract it from the -90 before appling the max +/-60 rule. So a stummer would bring the silent move penalty down to -60.

Either way trying to sneak around in a power armour with a jump pack is like trying to sneak up on someone wearing nylon jogging pants carrying a boombox playing rock and roll with the volume turned all the way up while walking on broken glass.

I think the idea behind stealth with Jumppacks is that they allow you to stay far enough away from the enemy that the extra bulk and loudness don't matter, yet needing the same or even less time to get into close quarters as without the pack.

So give the RG the malus you said, but also enforce modifiers on awareness for distance between the RG and his prey. If he uses the jump pack as good as possible, he should come out a bit better than without it as the bonus he gets for the increased distances eclipses the malus from the jump pack. At least that would explain why the stealthy Raven Guard tend to use so many jump packs!

Also, remind him to take the new RG talent from first founding, which removes any penalty camouflage and move silently get from being in Power Armour.

If he tries to sneak while actually using a loud bright roaring dual jet engine of doom, just look evily at him and roll-to-hit with a concealed AA battery.

Mind you, if he carefully infiltrates in on foot, cleverly hides in position and ambushes the enemy by activating his jump pack and charging, I'd be tempted to give the poor sod he is charging a fear roll. After all, look out your window, across the street. Now imagine a Raven Guard assault marine blasting out from behind a parked car aimed straight at you... I certainly know that I would poop myself if my bowels could beat him on initiative.

herichimo said:

Raven Guards have the New Talent: Guerilla Training which negates the penalties to Silent Move and Concealment inflicted by wearing power armour for only 400 XP and I guess every respectable Ninja-Marine will take this Talent first.

So with a Stummer or even better a Masking Screen and high Skills he only has a -10 Penalty. At Rank 5 his Master Of The Shadows Solo Mode Ability will grant him an additional +20 to Silent Move and Concealment. Considering the +/-60 rule he can completly cancel out the penalties and is as stealthy as an untrained Human in street clothes. Not bad for someone who is blasting through the scene with double his normal movement or even triple with the Wings Of The Raven Jump Pack.

Hygrics post is very interisting and perhaps the base to some future Raven Guard Solo Mode Ability like: The RG gains fear 1 if he makes an Ambush Attack with his Jump Pack after he succesfully manages to hide his presence from the target. At Rank 5 this becomes Fear 2 and at Rank 7 Fear 3. This should be an active type.

Maybe this will make the RG to good and everyone wants to be a Ninja-Rocketeer!

ROOOOOOOAAAAARRRRRRR!

Thug 1, "What the F was that?"

Thug 2, "Ignore it, that guy has a high silent move skill."

Even if he's got a billion bonuses, If your going to try to move silently... well you have to be trying to move silently. In the same manner you couldn't conceal yourself when wearing a giant flickering neon sign, you shouldn't even be able to sneak while wearing a running jet engine. This is probably why there are no penalties listed for silent move when using a jump pack, because you simply can't silently move when using it. In other words you auto-fail silent move tests when using a jump pack.

The +/- 60 rule comes into effect after ALL modifiers. Not before. If you were taking a chalenging test and you had a -10, -30, and 2 -20 penalties (total -80) but you had a +10 and a +20 bonus (total +30) your total modifier is -50. NOT -30. You add all the modifiers first ONLY if it is higher or lower than +/- 60 do you put in the cap.

I'd LIKE to think that Jump packs can be, ya know... turned off. Perhaps as a Free Action? Perhaps it doesn't take more than a moment to fire up, so if you're already hidden, the enemy is still confused by the time you're flying through the air at them, and then the pack is left on in combat so you can jump instantly.

Kain McDogal said:

There's already rules for this. In this case, successfully sneaking then activating the jump pack and charging them, then enemy you charged would be suprised. A suprised enemy can take no action for one or more turns, and are easier to hit. Or at least they should be, if they aren't suprised when you pull this, that's on your GM. So yeah they pooped their pants, something big just crashed through the window and cut Bobo in half, and they aren't sure whats going on so they can't take any action for a round. After they gather their wits and figure out whats going on they start to fight normally. So if they wouldn't have feared you before hand they won't fear you once they gather your wits.

Its still a sound engagement idea, suprising the enemy like this, but theres no reason it should be more frightening than it already is.

Jump packs can be turned off yes. You don't HAVE to use them if you don't want to.