Hail to all of you, members of the Deathwatch.

Here is a question my GM and myself (a GM too, but most of all a Space Poodle player) could not answer clearly after our last session : in Rites of Battle, the Fenris-Pattern Wolf Helm is added, a good advantage for Space Wolves, and a good reward.
But the question is : how do we get it? Just suppose the character's got the renown, there is no requisition price for it, and no special rule to get it neither.

We were hesitating between giving it as a roleplay reward, a present for a Space Wolf who would have distinguished itself, or giving it as a part of the Signature Wargear Talent. The problem with this last point would be "How do we change his craftmanship, as we don't have any req price for it?"
And, in the case of the roleplay award : which kind of feat would grant a player enough consideration to get that helm? Should there be a new "Trial" (meaning sending the Wolf in the ices of some planet to prove himself worthy, or some stuff like that)?

Thanks by advance for the help on that point.

Not so much of a 'rules' question, as one of play style. It's really down to the GM. Some might prefer to give it out for free, and others might assign a requisition cost, or even an XP cost for buying it as custom wargear (Although I wouldn't 'charge' more than 250xp for it at most). Seeing as every other piece of wargear has a cost attached to it, I don't think a token gesture would be too extreme if it saves other players from sulking for not getting 'free stuff' like the space wolf.

I don't think a quality upgrade should really be applicable, but others may differ. I'd personally give it out as a reward.

I'd perhaps arrange for there to be a mission which had an overlap with a Space Wolf strike force or group of officers where some careful diplomacy would need to be carried out by the player in order to balance the needs and honour of both the Watch (to finish their objectives) and their own chapter, despite a conflict of interests. I'd dish it out as a reward if they managed to do so. Alternatively, simply have the character be leading the kill-team when it does some other impressive task under the purview of the Wolves, such as helping secure a vital beach-head during an invasion, recovering geneseed of fallen brothers, slaying an impressive foe in front of a company captain et cetera.

A strong contender would be a diplomatic mission: In the course of doing something else, the party have the chance to somehow recover ancient Space Wolf wargear. If they do so, they are left with a quandary at the end of the mission: The obvious choice is to hand it over to the Watch in return for a bit of XP and some Rep. However, any right-thinking and honourable Wolf would probably insist on returning it to their Chapter (any greedy one would maybe want to claim 'dibs'... a wily GM could make that an option by offering a 10% discount on XP cost if the item is bought as Wargear, thus 'tempting' the player away from the truly honourable thing to do). Anyway... *if* the Space Wolf digs his heels in and wants the stuff returned, you can then run a simple diplomatic mission, with the players -led by the Wolf, probably- going and visiting the Wolves to return the wargear. Give them a feast and some mead and a session of roleplay. Give any Dark Angels a quick honour duel. At the end of it, the player is thanked and formally presented the helm. If the wargear was a particularly impressive haul, you can makes sure that others aren't left out by either giving them the option of an appropriate Distinction, or perhaps a Space Wolf chapter trinket-thingy. Obviously, any characters who acted like an ass to the Wolves or refused to participate in the roleplay won't be getting the rewards!

...And if the player *didn't* ask for the kit to be returned to their Chapter, or instead elects to take some of it themselves, and then asks several games later 'Can I have one of these Fenris helms?' you can tell them that they had their chance!

Thanks for the answer. It gives me some good ideas for the Space Wolf one of my players is using right now. I would never have thought of the diplomatic mission, which seems the best solution. And it also forces the players to make some roleplay, which is the point in a... well... roleplaying game. A point my players tend to forget.
And thanks for clarifying the fact that nothing is written on that subject in the rules. That was my main concern, that I had skipped some important part of it. I will notify my GM about it and, hopefully, he will find a cool way to give me this helmet (as he is my Space Wolf player, I won't share your complete solution with him, I hope you'll understand).

As there is no other information, I guess the Helmet's availibilty is tied to the Renown. As soon as your Space Puppy reaches Respected he gets one.

You do not automatically get one.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to requisition a Wolf Helm. The wolf helm's Req. is N/A, meaning it is NOT AVAILABLE for requisition. Though it isn't impossible to acquire one.

Siranui had some great examples of how a space wolf may acquire one. Others could be your group comes upon a space wolf squad slaughtered months or years ago and one of them is wearing a wolf helm, while others may have their own unique armour pieces. As a reward for returning their bodies/geneseed and armour to the chapter you are allowed to keep one piece of their armour as an honor. Or perhaps you recieve it from a captain or rune priest after your kill-team (maybe even led by you) saved part of a great company from an advancing wave of Tyranid horrors.

As a sort of aside: While Space Marines are not driven by the desire for personal aqcuisition or wealth, this does not mean they do not collect, create, or bring things back with them. Perhaps it is the head of a monstrous xenos beast they bested to remind themselves and those who come after of the glory of besting such a creature. Perhaps its an ancient relic weapon from a long lost Guard regiment, the kill-team holding on to it until they can find someone or someplace it belongs or worthy to hold it. Marines are not denied the taking such items (although I'm sure some things may be denied or frowned upon), its just space marines have no need or desire for money or wealth. So they wouldn't rumage through a dead enemies pockets for gold. And most of the weapons a marine would find in the field are not appropriately sized or of a quality even approching the weapons they would request from their armouries and thus they would not desire to keep them. Generally for a marine to actually want to keep something it will be related to their own personal glory, history, or accomplishments or that of their brothers or even the Imperium.

herichimo said:

For the first part you are right. You can`t requisition a Wolf helmet hence no Requisition cost but to reach the required Renown you have to finish some difficult tasks during gameplay so it's only logical to assume that this is the accomplishment you need to get a Wolf Helmet otherwise there would be no need for the required Renown. As there is no other information and this is the simplest interpretation of the existing stats based on Occam's razor a Space Wolf simply gets a Wolf helmet for free once he reaches Respected.

Actually Okham's Razor in summation states: All things being equal, the simplest solution is the most likely. Or, simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones.

In reference to the wolf helm, the arguments are: Only Space Wolves may have one, it has a renown prerequisite, and its requisition is Not Available. Based solely off those equal arguments you MAY NOT requisition a Wolf Helm. When we associate the normal rules for requisition you MAY NOT get one simply by reaching the renown prerequisite, in the same maner you may not automatically get another kind of wargear automatically.

Your statement above adds an additional argument not present in the rules. That argument is, "since theres no cost (although the cost is actually N/A, not 0 or -) and no guidelines to hand them out, you can simply get it automatically." This is NOT an equal argument (and is in fact untrue) as it is not from the original source, you have added it after the fact, and thus you have made the argument more complex. Thereby you have actually violated Okham's Razor in your above statement.

'Nuff said.

^ This.

In a game which is supposed to be all about daring deeds and being heroes, the most logical way of earning a relic that is earned through high renown isn't just being handed it by default; but by earning it by specific action.

herichimo said:

The corresponding argument is that the Guardian Bolt Pistol mentions "Special" under Requisition and its descriptions sounds a lot like your theory.

So if a Fenris Wolf Helmet can only be awarded through roleplaying why is there no "Special" under Requisition?

In the end it's a fantasy game and if you think a Wolf Helmet can only be awarded through roleplaying you can play it that way, but if someone asks for help on this matter the simplest explanation should come first.

The Wolf helmet is only an equalizer as many players complained that a Space Wolf's abilities where underpowered compared to the other chapters.

So instead of the GM crafting a mission specifically based around a 'Knight's Trial' for your character, and the chance to lead a Kill-Team in a role-play led scenario which introduces the party to your Chapter as a cohesive whole and lets you go and drink mead with them, you'd prefer he just said 'have a free hat' after your 5th mission?

Seriously?

In a game of epic heroism, where wargear is honoured and sacred, that's the solution that is 'obvious' and preferred?

**

The only equaliser?

Erm... no. You've got a free extra starting talent now, another Chapter talent, the best melee weapon going, a solo mode that is awesomesauce and can now be used in squad mode, and a little hat that completely negates the disadvantage of it and doesn't cost any XP or Requisition to obtain.

Shed no tears for the Wolves;

Save them for the Imperial Fists.

Siranui said:

You forgot that the Space Wolves also gained a trapping that lets them have Frenzy right from character creation at no cost!

Is it bacon on a string, like, attached to their power pack and hanging in front of their face? Please tell me it is. That would be the BEST TRAPPING EVER

Rofl.

I really do feel sorry for the Fists these days. The shafting they got in RoB was bad, but the lack of anything better is like grinding rocksalt into their face.

Captain Ventris said:

Wolf Tooth Necklace from page 104 of FF

In all seriousness, I believe that any SW players would wish to earn the helm. In the self reliant and proud Fenrisian traditions (check out the Ragnar series by William King) where they are hunters and survivors.

I would interpret the "-" requirements as: Renown requirement, no shelf cost as it is rare to come by. Reward for a mission/ quest would seem the only logical Fenrisian way to earn it.

Deepstriker said:

Of course, but the player ALREADY DID this to boost his Renown to Respected which is in fact little low considering that you need a Renown of at least Distinguished to get most other chapter-specific Wargear (not Relics) but on the other hand this low Renown maybe another indication that obtaining a Fenris Wolf Helmet in DW was never planned to be a to difficult task. And on top of that a DW Space Wolf player isn't your run-of-the-mill Puppy but one of the finest fenrisian warriors the chapter has to offer, otherwise he wouldn't be assigned to the Deathwatch in the first place.

Besides DW is a team-based Game more than most other RPG's and I really doubt that the Deathwatch would invest time and resources to assist a lone wolf on a personal quest for his own holy grail. This isn't D&D!

Deepstriker said:

The Wolf Helm has a req cost of "N/A". Which literally means Not Available. There are none in the Deathwatch armouries for them to "just pass out to all space wolves above the renown level." There are no Wolf Helms anywhere the Deathwatch can gain access to anywhere in the Reach.

Other than the helm's actual cost, you've got a good gist on the matter.

Kain McDogal said:

So just by doing the job he is supposed to do anyways a space wolf deserves a special award? He should get a special reward for doing all the things the other marines in his team did, while his brothers don't?

Way to go, rewarding mediocrity. Great Job space wolf, you learned how to load your bolter, hears a suit of terminator armour as a reward!!!

Thats like someone in England getting knighted for working at the post office for 2 years. Complete dookie that is.

You say its a team game. Well, have you thought what the other people in your "team" would think after they have all fought xenos and bled with each other just to go back to the watch fortress and see a box all gift wrapped in their arming chamber labeled, "For: Space Wolf ONLY, congratulations on doing the same thing as your team-mates, heres a special gift for you." You don't think your players would feel a little unhappy about that?

No one has ever said you have to make a WHOLE MISSION just for the space wolf to get a hat. We have been saying you could put in a complication or situation where the space wolf could "earn" one. Who knows, perhaps he would have to go against his team mates or objectives to help his fellow space wolves. Since the Req for the damned thing is N/A it means its not the Deathwatch that gives it to the space wolf. Its his chapter, I don't think the deathwatch would be sending constant astropathic updates back to the chapter on your missions (kinda goes against the secretive nature of the deathwatch, doesn't it?). Whatever his actions are, his chapter would have to know about them, which means the chapter either witnessed them firsthand or were specifically notified (meaning stuff that expressly pertains to space wolves, not everyday deathwatch stuff, the deathwatch considers those secrets). The actions which may earn him a helm may in fact result in bad things happening to his primary mission, or perhaps not. THAT is what RPGs are really about, roleplaying, not blindly following a set path laid down by anyone.

herichimo said:

Not available or not applicable? Scout Armor, regular Power Armor, the Backpack Ammo Supply, and all standard issue ammo are all listed as "N/A." Now, N/A as defined in the core book: "Items listed as N/A are not typically stocked in Watch Station armouries." So you have a contradiction in their own writing (again).

That all being said, I agree with most of your points and really feel the meaning of "N/A" is "it's up to the GM."

I also agree that having a KT deployed on an individual mission for the glory/betterment of a single marine, or a piece of wargear as 'insignificant' as a wolf helm, would be a bit of a stretch in the setting as written. The helmet as a complication and a risk/reward thing is a pretty cool idea.

Personally, the helm doesn't provide such an astounding edge to a player that the players in my group (escluding the space wolf) really cared if he had it or not, so we didn't do much surrounding it's aquisition.

herichimo said:

Well put, if a little blunt!

I play Deathwatch to excel, not to do the bare minimum. I want to be handed my magic helm by some bloke with lots of gold on his armour, in some vast chamber while other marines watch me receive my honour and choris 'for the Emperor' at the end of it. I don't want it to just turn up in the post when I 'ding'. Nor would I ever wish my PC to attend such a ceremony while the other PCs just stood their watching me being handed Chapter-specific shinies for do nothing more than they did.

As to the 'whole mission' thing; for me it's an excuse to break the pace and get the PCs doing something different and getting some good quality roleplay in. It doesn't have to take more than a couple of hours, and I am absolutely itching to dump the players amongst a Chapter of 'normal' marines at some point, and this is a great excuse to do so. The loyalty of the 'home' character can be tested in a home vs. DW kind of way, and the other players can socialise with people who are their brothers... but not. The relic is really just an excuse to run such a plot-line. If I didn't have time, I'd run one of the 'complication' aspects outlined.

I would personally allow the Fenris-wolf helm to any space wolf that met the renown requirements, because simply put, it allows them to actually use there solo-mode ability with being suicidal. Or for that matter, to even be able to use Wolf Senses in any condition that requires the use of a helmet.

Yeah, I'd allow them just to have it so that they can use their powers properly. Forcing them to go sans-helm was an oversight, really.

A possibility (not one that I used, since the Wolf in my party earned his by single-handedly bringing down a Broodlord with a truly inspired roll of Smite and then having it rewarded to him by an Elder Runepriest on Erioch) would be to make it a chapter trapping instead. Keep or discard the renown requirement as you see fit.

This does actually raise some good points. But first, however fussy, I would agree with Charmander that N/A stands for Not Applicable. As such, I simply see the issue of requisition being irrelevant to obtaining the helm. This seems quite clear cut to me, the helmet can't be bought as a one off toy using requisition, but should be acquired as a permanent upgrade.

Somehow.

It would help if the description alluded to how common these helmets were. If most experienced space wolves were to use them, I'd consider siding with those arguing for a free upgrade, all the text mentions is that there's different versions, which might suggest them to be common. Anyone ever read about these outside deathwatch?

For the most part, I agree that these should probably either be granted as a reward, or cost experience. In the case of the former, a whole, dedicated mission seems a bit much, and potentially too focused on the one player, the holy grail scenario as mentioned by Kain. It's not even that powerful an item. Of course, if it's a good mission anyway, that doesn't interrupt the existing story, then it could be an apt reward, perhaps with other, roughly equivalent toys being offered to existing players.

Alternatively, if it's not considered worth modifying a campaign for, or isn't wanted as a casual side reward. Then a small experience cost might be apt, not to mention nice and simple. Siranui's suggested 250 xp seems about right. I know there's been objections that new loot should be granted as a reward for great deeds, but I doubt anyone would propose that signature wargear should be accompanied by a particular act. Sometimes such a reward might just be granted in note of good service, as are most of the other advances.

Strangely, there's no mention to what the Auto-Senses bonus on this helm (nor the Wolf Priest's helm from FF) should be. Is it +5, +10, +15, or something else?

HappyDaze said:

The description reads:"The Fenris-Pattern Wolf Helm acts as a normal power armour helm with one exception.".

I think "Normal" means the most common Helmet and in the Table 3-6: Armour it's AP is 8 which are both hints for the Mk7 Helmet.

Of course there are 3 other Mk's of PA which have an Helmet AP of 8 but what about the other 4?

It is safe to assume that Wolf Helmet is a modified Mk7 and so the Auto-Senses bonus should be +10.