I was checking the stealth suit ability acitve passive. Can he attack in either mode? If so will it be to hard for the player? I'm making a futur mission with the tau and was looking over there abilities again and crossed with them wich will most likely be in my campaign.

Sure he can 'attack' in both modes. But it doesn't matter. Once you do something like making an attack you give up your stealth. Once he starts shooting the stealth suit pilot would no longer be stealthed and would have to wait till his next turn to make an oppossed concealment test to become stealthed again. If I were running stealth suits myself I would give them a penalty for a concealment test if they remained in the same spot where they shot (enemies know where they are and will be watching them), and further modified by their range (easier to hide the farther away you are). In other words you can't stay invisible all the time if you want to attack.

Stealth is best covered in the "expanded skills" section of the Inquisitor's Handbook (Dark Heresy). Please remember though that concealment is an oppossed role. All the bonuses stealth suits get don't matter if the pilot roles like crap and fails his test. Well as long as the other guy doesn't fail his test too.

herichimo said:

The IH has that "shoot then go back into cover" rule, which I would use.

Not with stealth suits.

The "get back into cover" rule is a half action. Stealth Suits are armed with burst cannons which can only be fired full auto. Steath Suits cannot, therefore, use a full action to fire their weapons then a half action to get back into cover.

That is the reason I did not mention it in my post above.

Aha, we've switched over to the BC autofire rules, so I didn't think of that.

They could turn it off, throw a rock, and then turn ti back on.

bogi_khaosa said:

Wait, in Black Crusade autofire isn't a full round action?

Charmander said:

Half Action. Well I don't actually have the book, but that's what they've been saying in the BC forum.

herichimo said:

Stealth Suits have the Auto-Stabilised Trait, so they always count as Braced and may use the Semi-Auto and Full-Auto fire modes as Half Actions, rather than Full Actions.

Neat, you're right. Did not remember that.

But I don't think it would be possible for a guy to open up a 2 second burst of rapid fire machine-gun energy death at close range and then magically disapear before his enemies can spot him.

Now if you were 1000 meters away and firing a single round from a flash suppressed precision sniper rifle who's bullet would hit before the report is heard. Yes... yes, you could hide after doing this.

The "hide after taking a shot" in IH was also specifically referencing a sniper shot. I'd think using such an ability would probably hinge upon being as sniper-like as possible. That being, already concealed, probably in the prone position hiding in folliage or terrain, taking only a single shot, and then obscuring your sillouette before your targets identify you. Firing a machine gun... not so much. I wouldn't allow it in my games. It makes no sense.

herichimo said:

Well -- that's because the machine gun is big and bulky, no? The burst cannons are part of the suit, and they are fast and agile with Autostabilized and their cover is part of them. "Slipping back into cover" would entail "moving a few steps to the left."

Thx it makes sense and i thought of that possibility. I'll have to get that book also.{Inquisitors handbook}

bogi_khaosa said:

I think that hits on one of the key problems inherent with turn based combat and initiative order- the person whose turn it is can do all kinds of things that may not make sense because opponents would theoretically be able to react to.

In this specific case, the fact that the stealth suit is agile, quick, has a magical field that helps it to hide, I would probably allow for it if the physical environment would make it reasonable. If they're in the middle of the desert, no, but if you have dense terrain- be it trees, rocks, rubble, columns, etc.- then the combined action of ducking behind cover and reengaging the suit seems to make sense to me.

I would also apply any appropriate modifires to the roll to get back into cover as anyone who was not ambushed by the attack (the kind of ambush where they get no reaction and are +30 to be hit) would be staring at them, which makes it trickier. This is where abilities like overwatch come in very handy.

Charmander said:

Does the field actually turn off when they fire, so that they would have to reengage it? As far as I know they're still stealthed when they fire, the firing just gives away where they are.

I don't think it turns off. But they are no longer concealed. The act of firing your gun breaks concealment.

Concealment (the skill) is an oppossed skill roll. It happens every turn someone is looking or listening in the direction of the person trying to remain concealed or ctrying to conceal something. Even if you don't do anything you still have to roll an oppossed test against the other character's awareness to remain hidden each turn.

As a GM I would give characters observing a guy trying to conceal himself heavy positive modifiers if the concealing guy didn't move after exposing himself. Knowing where the enemy was/is makes finding them a lot easier.

Now opening up with a rapid fire heavy weapon, whether auto-stabalized, attached to you, or not you give away your position. Its just not possible to hide again after doing something that violent, loud, and obvious. If you think you should be able to test to do so.. alright, your stealth guy gets a -60 to his roll for firing a weapon full auto and the other guy should get a +40 for noticing the guy, hearing the seconds long burst, watching the muzzle flash, etc.

As for the issue with rounds and initiative, its kinda grey, and not so much black and white. Sure there are abilities that allow a character to do some funky stuff. Charge in with perternatural speed then assassin strike away behind a nearby wall. But even with auto-stabalized making your full auto shot a half action your still firing a full action weapon. Just because you have a special rule making firing the weapon easier doesn't mean it actually fires faster. That gun is still going off for several seconds, most of the round anyways. It still requires the pilot to keep it aimed etc. Its just easier allowing the pilot to do other things had the weapon not been stabalized. There are just some things you aren't capable of doing at the same time. Hiding and firing a machine gun is one of them.

herichimo said:

Every turn? You sure? That's every 5 seconds. I've always been doing it as the first time and then every time someone moves ot somebody actively looks for something.

herichimo said:

Two things: firstly, while it's difficult to hide while attacking like that... the Stealth field remains active, which means that the Stealth Suit is still difficult to see and target even if you're looking right at it and know where it is. It may not strictly be hidden any more, but it's still an essentially invisible target thanks to an advanced holographic camouflage system and (when used on active mode, a multi-spectrum jamming system). It's a matter of differing levels of awareness - knowing that a Stealth Suit is in the area comes with finding evidence of its presence, such as burst cannon fire. Knowing precisely where it is to attack it... that's a different matter. It's why the Stealth Field penalises enemy Awareness rather than boosting the wearer's Concealment Tests - it doesn't help the wearer hide, it helps him not be seen, and while the two often lead to the same end, there is a difference in practice.

Secondly, and this is an element of personal preference here, I take the cowling on a Stealth Suit's Burst Cannon to be a stealth modification (whether a flash suppressor, sound suppressor, or simply something to contain the weapon heat and hide it from thermoptics) - all other Burst Cannons leave the individual barrels exposed, but those on Stealth Suits don't... the only reason to make that particular distinction is really if the Stealth Suit versions are built with Stealth Suit operations in mind. As a result, those Burst Cannons are unlikely to be as loud or obvious as you might initially expect.