Storm shields seem a bit too good for how much requisition they cost. For a fairly small outlay, you can make yourself take about 50% less damage, which seems like a 'take it all the time unless something's stopping you' item, ie, overpowered. Anyone else have that experience?

So far my group hasn't gotten them yet, but I'm definitely not looking forward to it. I'm wanting something that can tone them down a bit, because they are hugely useful, especially considering how little you need that other hand 95% of the time. I'm also a big TT-as-canon guy, and they do grant a 4+ invulnerable save, meaning you get to save half the time. I think what it comes down to is altering those rules with the rest of the armor rules; space marines normally have a 3+ armor save, so anything short of anti tank weapons would theoretically be ignored 66% of the time.

Has anybody thought of using it as a big armor bonus to the arm and leg on the side its held on, and to the body? Maybe a +4 or +6? Still be a big benefit, but it's no longer a LOLOMFG MUST HAVE.

Might not even go that high, maybe +2 or +4. Treat it like an extra layer of armor, and because of its power field, AP applies to the actual armor but not to the shield bonus.

Storm Shields already give a +4 AP bonus to the arm it's strapped to and the body. It only comes into effect when the force field is off though.

The easiest way to get around Storm Shields is to just not give them to players. That probably won't go over too well though. An alternative solution is to break from the normal mission template. You could put your players in a situation where they are captured and lose most, if not all over their wargear, including armor. Something like the events in the book Hammer of Daemons, if anyone has read it.

Shoot them more often (law of averages)

Employ Mind Warping Psychic Powers

Use storyline and plot threads that do not require the wounding of PC's to Challenge them

Accept that Storm Shileds really are that badass and that Astartes are likewise and shape your campains around these factors. Then add in challenges that build upon those concepts.

So accept that they're overpowered and go out of my way to do other things? That sounds like avoiding the issue.

The thing is, in the fluff, an enemy would take into account how powerful a marine with a Storm Shield is and work around it. It's certainly annoying to do as a GM, but worth it in my opinion.

And if you think Storm Shields are OP, wait until you see the Rosarius. It has the same field rating, doesn't require the use of a hand, and I'm pretty sure it has no overload. If it does have an overload, it's going to be 1.

While this is likely to anger players, another option is to have weapon that indeed can bypass the field. There is a basis for this in tabletop (plenty of weapons ignore invulnerable saves).

Most of this would depend on the nature of the enemy, but if they're being sent against non-standard xenos, you could justify one or two of them having special weaponry that could bypass the shield. Possibly even certain warp weapons.

The key would be keeping the damage low enough to not take out the party though, but enough to scare them about the bigger stuff.

Like I'm thinking back to the RT stuff, didn't the Yu'vath (sp, whatever, don't care, foul xenos) have phasing weapons like that?

I'm not certain if this is actually in the rules or a house rule that my DM implements, but in our game a Storm Shield's force field only activates when it hits the arm carrying it or the body. A Rosarius/Iron Halo protects the entire body. Also keep in mind there is a 10% chance of a basic Storm Shield/Combat Shield Overloading, which shuts down the force field until someone can repair it (a -30 Tech-Use Test). Your players can requisition a higher quality Storm Shield to bring the Overload chance down (Exceptional Craftsmanship has a 5% Overload chance and costs 1.5x as much, Master Craftsmanship has a 1% Overload chance and costs 2x as much). Alternatively, you can say that only Master-Crafted force fields are available - a Storm Shield with a Requisition of 70 is a big chunk of Requisition, but also really powerful.

Something to consider is that there are already a couple of weapons that bypass/shut down shields. Pretty much any weapon with the Haywire Quality is going to terrify your players, including EMP Grenades and Techxorcism Guns. A Necron Lord's Warscythe is going to laugh at your pitiful force field, and then chop you to dogmeat.

A couple of house rules I'm probably going to implement once I start running a Deathwatch game - certain Warp Weapons have the ability to bypass force fields (probably only in the hands of the more powerful servants of Chaos), and two-handed Power Weapons (Thunder Hammers, Executioner Axes, Power Claymores, etc) can bypass them as well. If you weren't able to tell, I'm trying to increase the attractiveness of taking a two-handed weapon.

In one of my previous D&D DMs taught us a lesson. There are most certainly different ways to go around a situation. An invulnerable weapon, is only as powerful as the one who wields it.

If overloading a Storm Shield isn't possible. Throw him a horde or try weapons that are able to bypass armour. If not place them in situations where a player may not be able to utilise it. Or, I may also suggest trying to trip or disarm the player. Prise the shield away from the player. Can't use what's not in his hands.

I believe there was a discussion on a previous thread but I can't seem to recall where it was otherwise I would paste the link for you .

This is a very similar thread to a previous one with a very similar answer to many threads. Against overpowered X use specific weapons Z.

You can't deny it but its hardly the answer to all your problems as it doesn't lead to many different situations. What I'd like to suggest is rather than rules it up, play it up.

The rules as they stand are quite short and quite specific with no caveats. In the TT there are inbuilt limitations eventually, now I'm not saying that most of your enemies should have what the TT calls 'Str D' weapons. Certainly, hitting them Volcano cannon shots seems like an over reaction, but there are weapons and defences that are on the borderline of reason.

Rules as they are state that %70 of the time a shot from a Tau Hammerheads railgun is ignored and Mr Marine can happily charge the tank with his thunerhammer or whatever and that's fine. But personally if I was a player if the GM said i was completely unharmed but 20m away burried in the rubble a building I wouldn't suprised.

If that Deamon Princes giant deamon hammer didn't wound my character at all but I found myself flying through the air I'd still count myself lucky.

Now I'm not worried about the physics of the situation, oh go please don't get hung up on the perceived physics, but for the the occasional save vs utter destruction loosing a turn or an attack getting back into melee doesn't seem like that bad of a pay off.

fleshbearer said:

It becomes a question of how true to the fluff do you want to stay?

In the TT game storm shields are hugely powerful, and are priced accordingly. In the RPG game they seem stat wise to be on par with the TT game, so yes they are very powerful, but they're supposed to be very powerful, so I wouldn't say they're over powered.

The cost might be an issue, so that's one way of addressing it. Other would be the renown requirement. I'm new to the game, and haven't really played a campaign yet, so I don't have a good concept of how long it would take to earn that much renown, but it should take awhile.

You can't really just change the rules without potentionally causing other issues, and making players upset. You'd also be breaking the fluff if you weaken them because they are supposed to be that powerful.

I guess my point is that they aren't broken , in the sense they're too powerful, but they may be too cheap.

I like some of the ideas here, especially the 'sure you didn't take damage, but you're now 20m away embedded in a cliff'.

Perhaps an increase in renown/requisition. This would simply delay it, however.

fleshbearer said:

Yeah, once a player attains the requirement to purchase the SS, then you may find yourself back at Square One. Thinking one step ahead and addressing the issue may be more prudent. Anyway that's why you're talking about it isn't it?

Just to digress, there is a talent in the Black Crusade for disarming. Where both party makes opposed WS rolls. If the party initiating the disarm succeeds, it falls onto the floor at his feet. If the iniitator succeed by four or more DoS, he/she/it is able to take the weapon from the subject of disarm.

Deepstriker said:

Disarming seems like an interesting option since it's not removing storm shields from the players so much as a small downside.

I didn't have any problems with that. Thing is, once the players have high enough renown to have a Storm Shield, you can pretty much throw all the heavy hitters on them. With enemies that can pretty mcuh kill in one shot, having a Storm Shield/other power field just adds to the tension. So just up the enemies damage and have fun...

gulasch said:

That too, send high level enemies. Try a horde of Tyrannid Hive Tyrants or a magnitude Horde of Daemon Princes. Lol.

It's a good half dozen missions or so before StormShields become available from start out.

And in response to earlier, (although applies to equally for anyone reading) I do not see "going out of your way" to vary the content and style of the missions and plots your Killteam play through avoiding the issue at all. I call it a valid response and option as directly presented to all GM's of all games ever. Keeps things interesting, keeps your players thinking and making it not a game juts about the WarGear and WS/BS S/T stats (there is already a game that does that set in the same universe, it's called Warhammer 40,000).

However, If you feel you REALLY need to, lower the shield rating of a Storm Shield, or up the cost for the same effect, or tell your players that NO they cannot take StormShields.

But, as with all House Rules, the real question is... "does what you House Rule" make a better game. If the answer is YES then well done, if the answer is NO then you're trying to rule for the wrong reasons. Is changing the stats/req cost/availability of the Storm Shield going to make for a more entertaining or challenging game at your table? Or will it just create a piece of gear that no-one takes? Or, the great Gods of Gaming forbid, are you trying to "Win"? (if the latter is so I refere again to Warhammer 40,000).

Although I will offer this concept of Rule that stays within (to a degree) the Fluff of the 40K universe.

"All ForceFields, like the protective Void Shields of Titans, installations ad other Superheavy constructs are formed of layered barriers of Force.

Each ForceField has 10 (or 6 or 40 or whatever number you like) Shield Layers

Each time a Force Field deflects an incomming attack a Shield Layer is lost, if a BurnOut is rolled then the Field Generator is overloaded as normal.

Lost Shield Layers recharge at a rate of 1 layer per 10minutes (or 30minutes or Hour ect) of the generator being turned OFF

A character may turn his/her Field ON or OFF as a Free Action on his/her turn"

Oh and yes C'Tan phase weaponry makes all manner of mockery of Force Fields, so do Shield Breaker rounds from the Vincare Assassin's gun and I daresay that all the haywire and techhexing stuff also play merry hell with such devices and can also easily see the Greater Daemons having all manner of nastiness that can creep around a Force Field as well. With 'Nids Hordes are always the key with some monstrosities in their midst as for the Tau, Massed Firepower will drop even terminators with stormshields.

I had a player in 3.5 D&D who had a completely min-maxed archer using all the books available (it was at the end of 3.5). He basically ignored penalties for shooting into combat, invisibility, cover, etc with a combination of gear, feats, and class abilities. In essence, he always shot 3-5 times at almost full effect. I put the fear of *insert forgotten realms deity name* in him when he once shot at a devil who then proceeded to run to him and grapple the bow away. Since his character was min maxed for ranged damage, he easily lost the strength bases opposed roll and the devil teleported away with the bow after making a snarky comment about the first shot hurting. Once in a while, you could engineer a scenario where the player temporarily or permanently loses the storm shield if he's running around recklessly via a similar method if you're really finding this piece of equipment unbalanced.

Also, if he's using the field benefit willy nilly, you can de facto force an overload simply by masses small fire causing him to eventually roll a 1-10. In the end, the shield obviously makes a PC very survivable (as it should) but it does so at the expense of other things like ranged fire and even multiple attacks (since you can't dual wield weapons while using it). The overload though is the best built in limit to its power. IIRC, you can't choose to NOT use the field so even attacks that your armor would soak (like lasguns) can still overload it.

Yeah I've played a session since, and even though I'm not a huge fan of them still, they seemed ok. Three PCs had one (grr) but two of them were shorted out by literally dozens of attacks from fire warriors and one failed to block a railgun from a tau tank...so yeah...

The requisition cost of a Storm Shield is on par with the requisition cost of Thhunder hammers, Power fists and Lightning claws, all of which are expensive top end damage dealing combat weapons in both TT & DW. I do not belive that the storm shield is over powered especially when as a GM you can put in creatures with over 100 wounds that can kill a marine in 1 hit and take next to no damage from most of the hits a marine can put on it.

Also all players have their good days and bad days, on their bad days their characters will fail at most things and possibly burn through their fate points very quickly against the big bad.