So far, if I'm using a Move 2 unit, if I'm doing MOVE + MOVE, I just move the unit a total of 4. But is this correct? What about this example:

(1) Move diagonally forward + right

(2) Move diagonally forward + right

(3) Move forward

This move sequence is a total of 4 spaces so at first glance it seems doable. But the problem is that this move can't be accomplished with two separate move actions. If the first MOVE action is (1), then (2) and (3) can't be completed because it's a move of length 3. and (1) and (2) together can't be a single MOVE action, because they are a total of 3 moves.

This probably wouldn't matter except for the reactions. When would you be able to react to this movement? Between (1) and (2) or between (2) and (3). There's no way to tell, as the movement can't be broken up to 2 MOVES.

So am I correct that doing this kind of movement would be illegal for a MOVE 2 unit?

You declare your actions before performing them, so the unit would have four space it could move.

Without being able to combine movement, the examples for the Jump skill would be invalid, as a jump 1 tank could never clear an anti-tank obstacle as they show them doing.

Gimp said:

I'm not talking about the ability to combine movement. I'm talking about doing movement that cannot be divided into 2 "Move 2" MOVE actions.

In my above example, when could the opponent react to the first move, and why at that point?

That does raise another question - if someone can react to the first move of a MOVE + MOVE action - can someone react to a vehicle mid-jump because it's still in the air after its first move?

To clarify the issue here, in the rulebook, it says:

"If a unit performs the action sequence MOVE + MOVE, Reactive Fire must occur immediately after the first MOVE action."

In the example movement I gave above, there is no "immediately after the first MOVE action", as the second square moved uses part of the first MOVE's movement and part of the second MOVE's movement.

So if these 2 moves get blended together, a) is that legal? and b) if it is legal, how does one use reaction fire against it?

It would be legal to shoot it, and you would shoot it in the square it was in after spending all of its first move's movement. That would be at the end of its first move action. It would also be spending part of its second move's movement to enter that square, but that wouldn't matter. The first move action started it into that square.

Gimp said:

I'd say the movement you suggest is certainly legal. A Move 2 unit can move 4 squares if it does Move+Move, the actions combine.

However, it does indeed get tricky when someone wants to interrupt your movement with Reactive Fire. Trying use the official rules as a crutch in this situation, I would say that "immediately after the first MOVE action" means the first MOVE must be completed in its entirety, and then you halt as soon as possible. So, in this case, you would move the two diagonals, halt to receive the reactive fire, then complete the 2nd MOVE by moving forward.

Loophole Master said:

Look at the example for Jump in the skills section. Eligible squares cannot be reached unless the Walker is using a combined movement to clear the anti-tank obstacle and reach them.

Remember that Jump does not negate the vehicles' restriction on moving diagonally around corners around the impassable square, it only allows the vehicle to clear some things it otherwise couldn't.

All five squares noted would require the walker to enter the anti-tank obstacle's square, and then move on from there. Jump doesn't allow the walker to end a move anywhere it couldn't normally, so it has to be combining movement to go past over the obstacle.

Dunno. Is a SHOOT+SHOOT two separte actions? No, it's a combined action that lets your reroll your attack dice. I think the same applies to MOVE+MOVE. While the rules don't explicitely say that the Moves combine, I don't think they really explicitely say that they must be resolved independently either.

The Jump example doesn't really "fly" to me, pardon the pun. A walker with jump most definitely ends its first MOVE action in a particular space after going its movement value. It just can't end its entire turn on an invalid square. It's not really the same issue. In the jump example, the two MOVEs are still separate actions - it's just that after the first one, the second one must necessarily occur. A similar example would be a squad moving through friendly units. Still 2 separate MOVE actions, but by doing one, they are committing to doing the second. It's not the same as combining them.

Loophole Master said:

Well there's an exception that proves the rule.

According to the revised Rule book, "Note: The only combination of actions that a player cannot perform is Attack + Attack."

So the rulebook explicitly does not consider Sustained Attack to the be the same as "ATTACK + ATTACK".

felkor said:

Well... it used to.

Loophole Master said:

Or, just as likely, the situation I mentioned didn't really matter until Reactive Fire was introduced, and they probably just didn't think about that situation when they came up with that rule.

Yeah well, the design team has a track record of not really considering how new rules affect the old ones...

Note the wording they use there, as well: "The only combination of actions that a player cannot perform is Attack + Attack."

That would suggest anything else is combined, or it would not be a combination . Attacking takes place at the beginning or end of movement, but they are still combined in one activation.

As for the rules as written, nothing about Jump states the model gains the ability to end an action in a space it did not have the ability to end a move in before. Jump states a model leaps over obstacles, not lands in them and has to move on. Without wording allowing a quick landing with a requirement to immediately move on as an exception, the combined movement of two Move actions would be the only way to do so.

Moving through a friendly unit does not specify the unit ends individual movement actions in the space and must move on, it only states the unit cannot end its move in the same space. Note the wording does not differentiate that movement as separate actions, it states the unit, 'cannot end its move in the same space...' and does not specify whether that movement is from a Move 2 unit, or a unit combining two Move actions for its move.

Yeah, the whole move+move thing is a little ambiguous. Though I have pretty much been playing as originally described. I have a total of 4 squares to move with a Move 2 unit doing a move+move. And with using the jump ability, I typically jump over buildings, or across water in that entire movement.

As far as reactive fire, I have only this to offer. Reactive fire can only happen if the attacking unit has a valid LOS and weapon with range, so if when the first movement action is complete there is a valid line of sight, then they can attempt reactive fire. However rules have yet to clearly specify if units jumping over obstacles are within a valid LOS, and what weapons are able to fire. And if an attack over a tank trap is allowed, where as over a building is not. Pretty much open to individual interpretation at this point.

Example of how the group I'm in use a Move 2 move+move:

Move diagonal + Move diagonal + move forward (1 + 2 + 1 = 4). If when in that second diagonal space when the first movement ends, my opponent has a shot, they may attempt reactive fire. I then complete the movement.

ktj1138 said:

I would say you can not do that move 1+2+1=4. They are 2 separate actions not combined....you move up to 2 space then you take your second action and move two more spaces. I maybe wrong but that is how we play.

OptimusPrime21 said:

So by your logic a normal Move 1 unit who's doing a MOVE+MOVE action can cover two diagonals? That sure sounds wrong to me.

Loophole Master said:

Of course thats wrong, or it would never cost 2 squares to move diagonally and no point in having the Agile trait.

OptimusPrime21 said:

That would mean the diagram for a jumping walker illustrating Jump would be wrong, as there is no way for the walker to make two separate one space moves to get to some of the allowed destinations.

Jump does not add an allowance to end a move in a space where the model could not normally move, and then move on, so the walker has to be using a combined move.

Major Mishap said:

Ya I guess your right I would not allow a Move 1 unit cover two diags with a MOVE+MOVE ......

Since we are on the jump topic can you jump into a building? This game up recently

OptimusPrime21 said:

There's nothing to stop you in the rules. If you consider Jump to be fast skimming near the ground, as would be the most tactically sound idea if you didn't absolutely need elevation to get somewhere, skimming forward into a building would make perfect sense.

Instead of one single big jump, Jump would work safer (ie: not getting yourself shot easily) using several short running hops to get places, never going higher than absolutely necessary to get where you're going.