Hey Guys,

Okay I feel as though I have read the squad mode abilities section a dozen times and cannot seem to find the answer to this question. Then again it took about half a dozen readings to find starting cohesion score.

Do players start with all codex squad abilities plus their chapter squad modes? It seems only solo modes have initial rank requirements. Is there a certain number of abilities that you chose at creation?

Thanks,

Fabierien

Fabierien said:

Okay, as you've found out there are two general types of Squad Mode Abilities (SMAs from now on) - Codex and Chapter. They are further separated into Attack Patterns and Defensive Stances, but for this discussion we don't have to worry about that. SMAs do not have rank requirements but get better as players increase in rank.

Codex - What determines whether or not a given Codex SMA is available is the Oath taken by the party (see page 229).

Chapter - Only members of a given Chapter can benefit from that Chapter's SMAs unless an outside factor (like the Tactical Marine's "Tactical Expertise" ability) allows members of other Chapters to benefit.

Basically, each member will have access to his Chapter's 2 SMAs and the 3 Codex SMAs provided by the group's Oath.

I can't work out whether the Tac-Marine's ability is the only means to "transfer" chapter specific squad abilities to the team. The abilities available for the team to use are determined by the leader's Specialty and Chapter. But it also says that the Chapter Specific ability only has effect on brothers of the same chapter.

In other words, does the tac-marine's ability lie in that he can transfer his chapter's abilities when he is leading - or transfer them even when he is not leading?

Mooape said:

Anytime. A player doesn't need to be the squad leader to activate an SMA.

Mooape said:

As per the errata, the squad mode powers available to any one marine are determined by the oath taken, and that marine's personal chapter squad mode abilities. The squad leader does not add in his chapter's squad mode abilities.

Obviously, this helps indicate the strength of a tac marine, as it allows him to share his chapter abilities with other marines, when he activates the ability.

A starting skill that may be buyable later as per your GM, straight from the Tactical page in DW handbook.

tactical expertise
When initiating a Squad Mode ability, the Tactical Marine
may share the benefits of his Chapter’s Squad Mode
abilities with the members of his Kill-team as if they were
part of his Chapter. This requires a successful Hard (-20)
Command Test. At Rank 3, the Command Test becomes
Challenging (+0). At Rank 7, the Command Test becomes
Routine (+20).

En joy that little gem, i know i do

If that special ability was buyable it would subvert the option on page 226 of RoB as well as various Deeds/Distinctions though.

Alex

KommissarK said:

Kommissar, please point me to that section - as we've noted before this is one of the most confusing rulesets in the game and now I'm confused again!

Right now I've been playing it where the squad has access to the Team Leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities based on this line, page 228, Oath Taking section, core rule book: "An oath will then provide the Kill-team with a group benefit as well as a selection of Squad Mode abilities, any or all of which may be activated during the course of the mission. In addition to the listed Codex Squad Mode abilities the Kill-team will also have access to their leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities. "

As far as the Tactical Marine, the Tactical Expertise in this case would only come into play when the tac is not the leader, as when he is the leader, based on my interpretation of the above, the team would always get his abilities.

@Stannis, Tactical Expertise, as I play it, is a Special Ability. To me that would be like allowing a Librarian to pick up Unrelenting Devestation or an Assault Marine to pick up Battle Psyker. That said however, if the marine in question was roleplaying being a tactician well and really getting the group motivated, as leader or no, I might allow him to pick it up as an elite advance under the right circumstances. Though if this were the case, I would personally rather go with the second option presented in RoB, where he could activate the power and let others use it for 1-3 extra cohesion representing the challenge in getting them all to listen and cooperate.

There was some unclarity back when DW was released, we requested a clarification back then and received it which was later included in the errata:

"Gaining Squad Mode Abilities (page 219): The sentence
“Depending on the squad leader’s Speciality and Chapter, he will have
access to a different selection of abilities which his Kill-team may then
use during the course of the Mission” should change to “Depending
on the squad leader’s Speciality, he will have access to a different
selection of Codex abilities which his Kill-team may then use during
the course of the mission.”

So no leader's chapter abilities, that has definitely been retconned. Everybody can use their own abilities though, even if they are the only member of their own chapter in town. One might argue that some abilities might require a second man though.

Alex

ak-73 said:

What a difference a single word can make! Somehow in my 310 readings of the squad mode I managed to gloss over that part repeatedly. Definitely changesthat, thanks much for the pointer.

ak-73 said:

But the entry from Core Rulebook from page 228 named "Oath taking" which says:

"An oath will then provide the Kill-Team with a group benefit as well as a selection of squad mode abilities, any or all of which may be activated during the course of the mission. In addition to the Codex Squad Mode abilities the Kill-Team will also have acces to thei leader's Chapter Squad Mode abilities."

did not got changed (or I did not notice the change). So, the entry on page 219 does not say that the lider's Chapter Mode Abilities are accesable for the rest of the team. But then we have entry on page 228 which says they gain it. In the end - 1# entry does not say anything about it (nor allows it either forbid it), 2# entry allows it. In My Opinion the squad can use Chapter Squad Mode Abilities of their leader.

PS. Meh, books still contain many things are unclear

kriss_667 said:

Believe me when I say: there was lots of confusion about this when DW came out, we on the forums inquired about it, we received clarification and this prompted the aforementioned errata entry. There is no special rules with chapter abilites when it comes to leaders. I believe the email answers are still in the archives, probably in the old errata thread.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Unless you want there to be, of course. There is a lot to be said for allowing the Squad access to the leader's abilities, especially if you are not using RoB with it's additional methods of sharing abilities.

ak-73 said:

Where is the archive you tell about. It may contain other usefull info so i want to visit it

kriss_667 said:

I merely meant old posts which you can dig out via the search function.

Here is the old errata thread:
www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

It doesn't contain all email responses from FFG though (not sure if it contains the squad mode stuff). Some of those were posted in various threads since about a year ago.

Alex

Edit:

I found the post concerning this question, it's in the errata thread:

"My question is below, followed by Ross' answer.

> Rule Question:
> In squad mode who is able to activate chapter squad abilities and
> who can benefit from them? My reading of the rules suggests that
> anyone can activate a chapter squad mode ability, but that only
> squad members of the same chapter can benefit. However it seems to
> suggest that the whole team (regardless of chapter?) gains access to
> the leader's chapter squad abilities. Could you clarify this for me?
> Thanks!

Any member of the squad is able to activate Chapter squad mode
abilities. Only members of the same Chapter can benefit from Chapter
squad mode abilities. Certain abilities (such as the Tactical
Marine's Tactical Expertise) can allow members of different Chapters
to use a Chapter ability.

Ross Watson
Senior RPG Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
[email protected]"

ak-73 said:

I have to agree with you on this one, Alex. A Tactical Marine should be the only one who can have the Tactical Expertise special ability. For all others, and even for said Tac Marine, Forging the Bond is the way to go.

-=Brother Praetus=-

What are those Deeds/ Marks of distinctions you mentioned? Haven't actually read all those yet, but don't recall anything along those lines.

Of course Tactical Expertise would be a Elite Advance, it's a bloody Class ability, and should only be situational to Astartes that, as you said, are attempting to roleplay a Tactician, or are generally the usual leader of a kill team. those are the only circumstances I would allow a non-tactical marine to purchase it, and only as an Elite Advance, probably for about 2k xp.

Stannis Ravensight said:

It's from Rites of Battle. Rites of Battle also includes a General Rank 2 talent that allows you to participate in other chapter's squad mode abilities at an increased cohesion cost.

Alex

If players can use the leaders chapter abilities, watch out for ultramarine leaders and everyone using their rallycry ability for virtually unlimited cohesion (yes can only be used once per session per marine, but still increases cohesion a huge amount compared to any other ability or wargear)