I'm a little confused about what actions characters can take when they're engaged in melee.

Two examples from my latest session:

1.) The PC assault marine is engaged in melee with a horde of hormagaunts and he wants to use his jump pack to jump straight up and then perform a charge straight down so he can get the magnitude bonus from Wrathful Descent. So far I've been letting him do this, but granting the horde a free attack on him. This doesn't quite feel right as the AM could potentially take a lot of damage for trying to inflict only an extra d10 of magnitude damage. On the other hand I don't want him to get away with it scott free.

2.) The PC devastator has been charged by a horde of hormagaunts but on his turn wants to fire his heavy bolter at the Tyranid warrior behind the horde. I know that on p.247 of the core rulebook it says that characters in melee can only take actions with the melee subtype, but technically a character is only engaged in melee if he and his target are adjacent. Since his target is behind the horde just shooting at the warrior with no penalty seems completely legal by RAW, unless there are rules for shooting out of melee or moving out of melee that I've overlooked.

For 2:

No, he is in melee, because he is being engaged by another opponent in melee combat. You can't make ranged attacks against another target if you are already being attacked in combat. He'd have to disengage to be able to shoot again.

1. It sounds like you're doing the right thing. Not sure if I'd allow a vert jump + downward thrust as a charge action with a jump pack, But otherwise valid.

2. As above, the dev would need to disengage before he could fire. Since he was attacked by melee, he is now locked in melee with the horde.

Now, the big question I've yet to see a valid answer to:

Does adjacentcy = locked in melee. In other words, if say a tyranid warrior moved next to the dev, but made no melee attack, can the dev still fire the heavy weapons? If the dev moves away at this point, does the warrior get a free attack?

In this case I would rule that the dev can still fire, and the warrior gets no attack, as they are not locked in melee. In my games, I define that as being both adjacent, and one party having made a melee attack upon the other.

Lex1nat0r said:

A similar point came up in our session the other day, the old 'I'm only a metre or so away from the combat so I'm going to charge in a big U shape for the bonus' manouvre.

It has come up since we started in WHFRP V2 but I've never believed it to be practical or logical as a single move so I proposed the houserule below:

'The charge move must take you into the chosen melee combat in the most direct route possible. The GM determines if it is possible to loop past any obstacles to get into the chosen combat.'

Saying that though, jetting up out of combat to slam back down would come under the rule of cool. I'd allow it with the points:

• He WILL be attacked for free as he makes the jump - he is moving out of combat without disengaging
• The jet action MAY cause horde damage and would probably clear a space around where he launched - these things force enough jet out to lift a power armoured marine.
• as a result of above landing in the same location may mean there are no active opponents stopping him from causing any further damage to the horde
• I would definately require a Pilot (personal) test to do this, depending on the combat there may be some negative modifiers also.

For point 2 I'd say he cannot shoot the Elite as they charged him so he's already in melee with the horde.

Lex1nat0r said:

1. That is what Assassins Strike/Acrobatics is for.

2. Your Devastator has his hands full staying alive; he better make sure he does not get charged. He can take a half move back, survive a free hack and can shoot with a half action left. He better have some DW Suspensors.

Morale of the story: you can do the really cool things with the right training and/or equipment. Don't hand it out as candy.

Alex

Lex1nat0r said:

1.) Your assault marine cannot jump in the air and charge the unit he is engaged in for several reasons. First and most important the charge action REQUIRES the target be a minimum ditance of at least 10(?) meters away with the last four meters in AN UNINTERUPTED STRAIGHT LINE when you declare the charge to a target. You may not go crooked or around another enemy. With a jump pack he may go over enemies if you have the headroom, but since you are closer than 10 meters when in melee (0 meters) you may not charge that unit. Second a charge action is a full action, therefore you may not disengage and then charge back in, even if you used acrobatics to get the free half action. You may charge ANOTHER enemy unit more than 4 meters away, but since you are not disengaging from melee the unit you are currently engaged in gets a free attack against you (including bonus attacks for being a horde).

2.) The rules are clear about shooting while engaged in melee, you can't do it unless its the single pistol shot. The rules are also pretty clear on when a target is engaged. Once a unit is adjacent to another character it may engage that target in hand to hand (nothing there saying both targets must "agree" to fight). Once a character engages another the engaged character is then engaged in combat with the first, there is no technicality to abuse. Once you are engaged by a character you ARE engaged even if you don't want to be. Once the character is close enough to make a melee attack it can simply claim it is engaged. Ex. Your GM can make a horde of genestealers more than 90 meters away run (with unnatural speed) and get within melee range. Running is a full action so the genestealers may take no other actions this turn. But, since they ended within melee range of the PCs the genestealers have decided (by way of the GM) to engage the PCs in HtH. They do not need to make an attack this turn, and now the PCs are stuck in HtH at the start of their next turn (since the genestealers have engaged them).

Thanks for all the responses, guys. Based on what everyone's saying I think I'm going to do the following:

1.) The AM can perform his wrathful descent, but he needs to succeed on an acrobatics test to avoid the free attack and a pilot (personal) test to actually charge back down. I may change it so the acrobatics test allows the AM to disengage and make him wait a turn to charge back down.

2.) The dev needs to disengage before doing anything besides fighting for his life. I won't allow an acrobatics test on this because he needs to lug around a pack of heavy bolter ammo.