I know there are currently no heroes with the Fast skill, but I'm making some custom ones, and there are bound to eventually be some official ones. My question is: Do heroes with Fast share this skill with the squad they join?

Rules say: "All squad skills are shared with the hero.", " Some hero skills are shared with the squad". But the skill description doesn't say anything one way or the other in regards to sharing it.

So what do you think? Would the squad be motivated to run faster if attached to this hero? Would the hero be held up by his slow companions? Or is this sorta like Jump and a hero with Fast can only join a squad with Fast?

I'm inclined to say that this skills gets shared with the squad, since other movement-boosting skills like Agile, Charge and Assault can be shared by the hero.

I think a Hero with Fast, would share it with a squad. He or she is motivating his squad to move faster.

Jump is not only not shared but you cant join a Jump Hero with a Non-jump squad. So I dont think that is a comparison.

The only other two Hero Skills that arent shared are:

Damage Resilient, which makes sense. The Hero has a little better armor or whatever.

Medal of Honor, which pretty much makes sense. You are just rerolling one combat die, only allowed once per round.

With all that being said, the way the rules are written, I dont think we will see a Fast Hero anytime soon.

Dcal12 said:

Although this one's a little confusing. When a hero joins a squad, he's already sharing the health anyway, so how do you NOT share damage resistance? Any attack hitting a squad attached to a hero with this skill will benefit from the cover save from damage resilience, there's just no way around it.

Medal of Honor makes more sense, you can only reroll a dice in the attack made by the hero's weapon, not by one of his squad mates.

Loophole Master said:

Actually this is the most simple of all. After you have decided that the damage suffered is coming from the hero with Damage Resistance, you then roll your DR.

If you decide to remove a squad member (part of the Squads normal Health) you dont get Damage Resistance.

Peacekeeper_b said:

But you don't know the final amount of damage you suffered until AFTER you roll Damage Resistance. How can you decide where each wound should go beforehand?

Step 1 Roll cover saves and lets say that leaves 5 hits

Step 2 I apply three hits to Lara, two hits to the squad

Step 3 Squad loses two units, Lara rolls for the three hits, for each hit, ignore one hit

Now then the question is, what do you do if you have 10 hits after cover rolls?

Step 1 Apply 5 hits to the squad, eliminating the squad.

Step 2 Apply 5 hits to Lara? Roll for Damage Resilient.....

If you have to apply more hits to Lara then she has damage, then could you?

Step 1 Apply no hits to squad after cover rolls

Step 2 Apply 10 hits to Lara, after Damage Resilient lets say you still have 6 hits. Lara only takes four to kill.... You still have to hits not applied...

Fine I am just going to stick Lara with a squad that has Damage Resilient.

Wait a minute I found a "Loophole"!!!! The rule CLEARLY STATES and I QUOTE "A hero with this skill DOES NOT share it with any squad HE joins" Lara is a SHE therefore they must clearly mean for Lara to be able to share it.

Whew!!!

Loophole Master said:

Because the way health sharing works is that you may take the damage you suffer on the heroes wounds or take it from the squad as you choose.

So the enemy shoots my squad and inflicts 4 damage. I decide that my squad with a hero will lose two squad members and I will then apply thoe last two points of damage to the hero. Those last two points of damage I can roll damage resistance for because I am applying them to the hero, if the rolls fail the hero loses 2 health.

From Revised Core Set Page 18

The hero shares his health points (+) with the squad. When the combined unit
suffers one damage point, the owning player must choose who loses one health
point. He can either remove one of the squad’s miniatures or he can mark a cross
on the hero’s unit card. When a hero loses his last health point, he is immediately
eliminated.

From Revised Core Set Page 21

Damage Resilient
A unit with this skill is incredibly tough. After rolling cover saves, if any, roll one die for
each point of damage inflicted on this unit. For each result, ignore one
point of damage. A hero with this skill does not share it with any squad he joins.

So again, if you take 6 damage on a squad with a hero who has Damage Resilient in it, and you split that damage up 2 to the squad, 4 to the hero, you would then roll the hero's four damage resilience tests.

I'm still not convinced how the whole "not sharing" aspect of this works. One basic mechanic of this game is that when you join a hero to a squad, you can always (except for snipers) chose who takes the damage, the hero or a squad member. So invariably you will take health away from the hero until he only has one left, then you'll start taking out squad members, until you get to the special weapon guy, then it's a strategical decision who to kill. Damage Resilient shouldn't take away this aspect of the game.

So if a squad takes 6 damage, and you apply 2 to the squad and 4 to the hero, there's a good chance that you'll end up killing your hero and leaving your squad with 3 members. On the other hand, you could apply all 6 wounds to the hero, and if he failed in all of his damage resilient dice, there would be 2 points of damage that would simply vanish, while the squad remains intact.

I really don't see how you can go about this any way other than rolling Damage Resilient for every wound suffered by the squad+hero unit.

EDIT: Re-reading my post, I realized the only instance where this "not shared" business makes sense. If a sniper tries to take out the special weapon guy in the squad, the hero's Damage Resilient will be of no use to him, since it's not being shared. I guess that's why they had to say that this skill is not shared.

Loophole Master said:

I think, with no insult intended, that you are making this more complicated then it has to be.

You assign damage as you wish in a hero/squad combo, but as soon as the hero loses his last wound, he is gone.

Damage Resilient is rolled AFTER damage is taken/applied. So the hero cannot even make a Damage Resilient roll until that damage has been applied to him or her. So logically, you cannot give a hero more damage for damage resilient to soak then he can take at any one time (unless, of course, he is alone).

So you can either, A) Roll each die of damage resilient separately until the damage is either all soaked/used/applied or the hero is dead and then apply the remainder to the squad or B) Divide the damage up as evenly as possible (or in whatever proportions you wish) between the hero and the squad and roll for damage resilient after that.

At this point I dont think there is a hero with Damage Resilient who can join a squad that doesnt have Damage Resilient, so its kind of a moot point as the hero and squad will have it and all damage will be rolled against.

Peacekeeper_b said:

I think that's the point that makes this issue iffy. How do you know how much damage a hero with damage resilient can soak BEFORE you make the damage resilient roll? Theoretically, that hero could take 27 hits and not suffer a single wound in the end. So you can't really limit the amount of attack dice it is allowed to soak by looking at it's Health. And on the other hand, if you divert all 27 wounds to the hero and he ends up not saving a single one and dies, you've just spared a whole squad that should by rights be VERY dead.

It might be a moot point right now, and that's a good thing. But I'm sure it won't stay like this forever, so it merits discussing.

Loophole Master said:

You can't allocate 27 to a hero though, you can only allocate actual physical wounds, not possible wounds. Just allocate one at a time and roll for resistance until you decide to start removing models. What you are suggesting Loop is the same as allocating 27 hits to the hero and then rolling for cover, you just don't do that.

Loophole Master said:

Loophole Master said:

It does merit discussing. But the point is, you take the rolls after you assign damage. And you cant assign a hero more damage then he has health.

So you can only assign 4 damage to totenmeister if she still has 4 health left.

Damage Resilient

A unit with this skill is incredibly tough. After rolling cover saves, if any, roll one die for
each point of damage inflicted on this unit. For each result, ignore one
point of damage. A hero with this skill does not share it with any squad he joins.

Heroes

The hero shares his health points ( ) with the squad. When the combined unit
suffers one damage point, the owning player must choose who loses one health
point. He can either remove one of the squad’s miniatures or he can mark a cross
on the hero’s unit card. When a hero loses his last health point, he is immediately
eliminated.

So if you take 4 damage you must choose who takes it. If you take 5 health points you do the same, but the hero can only take 4 (if they have 4 health) so one must go to the squad. This is how it has to work because damage resilient is rolled after the damage is inflicted on a unit.

Dunno... Dividing the damages like that still seem like an idea fraught with problems. Say you have a squadron that's left to its last man, attached to a hero with only 1 Health left. This unit is sitting on the objective, but it's attacked by a powerful enemy, receiving a whopping 10 hits! By rights this should guarantee that this unit is wiped out. However, if we proceed like you said, we can only assign a single hit to the hero, cause that's all the Health it has left. The squad member is turned to dust by the 9 hits, but the hero manages to soak the single damage it received, and lives on to claim the match!

Loophole Master said:

I also said " or divided it as evenly as possible" or something to the affect, so at this point, you would of course allocate 1 to the trooper and he would be gone and the other nine, would then default to the hero.

What you cant do is say that the hero is going to take all the hits and when he doesnt save enough of them, just wash the other wounds away with a smile. They are still there.

So, how about this.

If the damage taken is more then the health of the hero and squad combined, then the damage is split as evenely over the wounds, with the left over wounds held in reserve until Damage Resilient rolls are made. Once those rolls are made, any living members if the unit would face the rest of the damage using their Damage Resilient skill as above, until all the damage is either gone or the unit had failed enough DR rolls to be eliminated. You cannot stack more damage on a hero then it has health unitl after the first set of damage has been rolled and he has survived.

But maybe we should just ask FFG or Dust Models?

Peacekeeper_b said:

I've given up on asking them rules questions. I have enough unanswered questions already...

Let's hope by the time an Armor 2 hero with Damage Resilient comes around, they decide to address this issue.

Peacekeeper_b said:

You could,but don't expect aprompt answer if one at all. My suggested way still seems to be the fairest and logical. Allocate one wound at a time on the model(s) with damage resistant until all are dead or you switch to hero/unit and carry on. You cannot allocate excess wounds to models.

We had a problem like this in our games before, so our playgroup decided to make it a rule that no matter how much damage is dealt to a squad,hero or a squad with a hero, you only deal damage up to the total HP of the units excess damage is disregarded. This happened after a player dealt a 5-man 10+ points of damage from a laser squad. As it was one of our early games we just allowed him to roll 10+ cover saves. After applying the "deal damage up to max HP" rule, damage resolution became a bit easier. i really don't know if this will work for you guys too, hope it helps.

-John

Sorry John, I didn't really understand what was the problem that your group faced. Could you try explaining that again?

Jochen Fleischer said:

Thats right,you allocate wounds not hits. In this example you needed to roll for cover first and then allocate the damage,no need to make up house rules.

@Loopholemaster

Sorry for confusing you. I read the previous post and what i wanted to say was already posted by someone else. sorry.

@Major Mishap

Thanks major, i never realized that we've been doing cover rolls wrong. lol! now i feel like shooting myself.

Sorry again guys.

-John