Hi Guys, I'm back with another question on grappling. My GM ran a fight scene with two of our characters going on a friendly sparring match.

One of our group members decided to wrestle the other character. But we realised that we didn't understand the rules after reading.

The part about being a half/ full action is really confusing. From what I gathered after reading the core book, to maintain a grapple is a full action but the initiate it is like a half/ full action (based on weapon skill, not strength). Reason being it written on p246 core book that it is either a standard (half) or charge (full action).

We are quite clear on the actions that one can take after grappling an opponent. The assistance portion is also quite fuzzy. Could we request someone explain our understanding as well assistance in the sense of grapple. Thanks!

Deepstriker said:

Yes, grappling is a Full Action. Initiating a grapple can be either a Half or Full Action depending on whether you use a Standard Attack or Charge. If you're standing next to your target, it'll be a HA. If you Charge to initiate the grapple, you'll use a FA and you'll get a +10 bonus to your Weapon Skill roll to initiate the grapple.

The Grapple action on page 240 details what both sides can do in a grapple, including which actions can benefit from assistance. Only two people can help each grappler, as per page 246. Page 204 details how assistance works - basically, every person helping lowers the test difficulty by one step and adds an extra Degree of Success if the test is passed. For example, if you were controlling a grapple and wanted to throw your opponent down, having two buddies help you would mean your Opposed Strength Test would be Routine (+20) and you would gain two extra DoS if you succeeded (not counting other bonuses like having Unnatural Strength).

I see. Let's say the person initiating the grapple is a squad member and you mentioned he may benefit from two assistance.

Let's say two other battle brothers declare that they will assist. Do the other two have to engage and also make grapple checks against the enemy?
Do they stand behind and use their turn to do cheerleading for the grapple initiator? How does this play out?

I'm still quite confused on this portion.

Deepstriker said:

No, the other two just have to declare that they are providing assistance to their grappling teammate. For a grappling scenario, that would involve them doing something to help like pushing on an opponent or trying to pry their buddy free if he's losing the grapple. Page 204 mentions that you must be adjacent to the person taking the test to provide assistance, so standing back and cheering wouldn't help any.

For example, say a Kill-team was in battle with a group of Tau. They decide to take one captive for interrogation, so on his turn Brother X grapples the last surviving Tau. On their turns, Brothers Y and Z declare they will help subdue the captive. They don't need to make rolls, but in-game their characters would be helping hold the Tau (or whatever the group chose to do to him). They are not considered to be in a Grapple, so they do not suffer the conditions of being in a Grapple listed on page 246; thus, they can still use Reactions and there is no bonus to Weapon Skill to hit them. On its turn, the Tau tries to break free, which is an Opposed Strength Test against Brother X. Because Brothers Y and Z are helping him, Brother X's Strength Test is considered two steps easier (so +20 instead of +0) and if he succeeds he will gain 2 extra Degrees of Success - not counting other factors like Unnatural Strength, of course.

(Without mentioning why a Space Marine would need two friends to help him subdue a Tau once he got a hold on it...)

The Space Marine would be taking a full action to control the grapple, choosing which action in the case of taking a captive alive? Would you be hoping the levels of fatigue (from the inflict damage option) knock them out before the damage kills them? Does the Space Marine's Unarmed Master mean they are doing 1d10+SB without doubling armour? If you don't bypass their armour & toughness do they still take the fatigue? These are less likely to matter in the SM vs. Tau above, but could mean quite a lot in an unarmed fight between battle brothers...

If you thought ahead and brought restraints would it be reasonable to 'ready' them as one turn's action and 'use' them the following round, thus restraining them so you can drag them around however you want? and if you were trying to take that Fallen alive, how strong are those restraints?...

Nathiel said:

LOL This was purely a hypothetical example. Any self-respecting Space Marine could outwrestle a Greater Daemon with one arm tied behind his back, of course...

The Space Marine would be taking a full action to control the grapple, choosing which action in the case of taking a captive alive?

Yes. His buddies can say they're helping, but they don't get to choose which grapple action the main character takes.

Would you be hoping the levels of fatigue (from the inflict damage option) knock them out before the damage kills them?

That's certainly one way to do it. In the case of some enemies (such as your average Tau) it is risky because they're more likely to die from the SM's unarmed attacks before they pass out from fatigue. Other characters could always Stun the grappled target to allow for easy capture (and they'll get that nice WS bonus for attacking a grappling enemy). You could also use items (like restraints) to subdue them or use some sort of drug to sedate them (my group's Apothecary carries some home-brewed tranqs for subduing weaker opponents). I don't think there's anything official about it, but I also house-ruled it so players can forgo doing the melee damage and just inflect the level of fatigue.

Does the Space Marine's Unarmed Master mean they are doing 1d10+SB without doubling armour?

Yep. The rules say to do unarmed damage, which for Space Marines is 1d10 + SB, not Primitive.

If you don't bypass their armour & toughness do they still take the fatigue?

It's not very clear, but I would say yes. By the basic unarmed combat rules, no fatigue would be taken but there are no such restrictions under grappling; it just says to inflict unarmed damage and a level of fatigue. It also just makes sense to me that wrestling around would tire someone (or something) out even if it isn't really taking any damage.

These are less likely to matter in the SM vs. Tau above, but could mean quite a lot in an unarmed fight between battle brothers...

Yeah. The Tau is really no problem in wrestling. An armored SM probably won't have to worry about taking much damage without RF being rolled, and it's the fatigue that will finally decide the winner.

If you thought ahead and brought restraints would it be reasonable to 'ready' them as one turn's action and 'use' them the following round, thus restraining them so you can drag them around however you want? and if you were trying to take that Fallen alive, how strong are those restraints?...

Yep, that's a good use of the Ready and Use Item grapple actions. Restraints are supposed to be able to hold even an Ork, so they shouldn't be easy to break. It would be entirely up to your GM, I think, but I'd personally have them make the Strength Test to break free anywhere from -30 to -60 depending on how well made the restraints are. Maybe you could do Common (-20), Exceptional (-40), and Master (-60).

You can always whip out those restraints you should be carrying on your capture mission. Then just put them on the Tau with your grapple action. Control the grapple, ready your restraints and in the next turn, put them on the alien deviant.