I was considering about writing a rules for a combats between armies (small armies that is).

An idea that I had was that gathering an army would require an "army sheet" similar to party sheet (with different kinds of armies having different abilities). The army sheet would have sockets for "units" (or not, but the units would still be represented by small cards giving different bonuses) and a Stability meter. The fights would be simple rolls between the leaders of the armies - almost like "army attack"-actions (type: Support). Success would decrease the Stability (kinda like wounds) of the army and if reduced to zero the army would be broken.

The progress of the battle could also be counted with a tracker where events spaces would mean that the characters face an important enemy or an event they must get through.

How would this sound to you? Any additional ideas? I think it needs to be kept simple.

(Minor spoiler)

Someone wrote his way of handling EfaE final combat in GM section.

It was quite well thought out, and could be a nice basis for your house rule.

Think that you might need to "dig deep" to find it, but it's there somewhere

Excellent idea Doc - why not bring it to the table for LF9?

Might do that too. There are more possible commenters here though. And I'm currently so busy with different projects that I'm not certain I could write this before the deadline of LF.

I've been working on a similar goal for a bit now myself. I am writing an 'epic' campaign that is very political in nature and provides the PCs an opportunity to get embroiled in a conflict at a regional scale (and possibly lead a company or three of units in battle).

I am debating between having the conflict modeled more abstract (simple army sheets, a couple of trackers for battle progress, morale, and so forth) vs. something more tactical. I keep referencing the Warfare chapter from Green Ronin's ASOIF RPG. That is a bit too tactical and detailed for what I want to accomplish, but it's an awesome springboard. But I like how it zooms in to the PCs allowing them a few individual actions, and then zooms back out to the skirmish level.

On the bits side of the equation, I purchased a couple of decks of the Battleground: Fantasy Warfare human (men of Hawkshold) faction for use in ASOIF and they make for great skirmish level cards, mobs, etc. http://www.yourmovegames.com/pages/army_men_hawkshold.html

If I were to run large battles I think I'd try to recreate Pendragons cool and fairly simple system (and the bloody results would fit Warhammer very well).

It works on 2 levels - firstly the battle is divided into X turns.
Each turn the commanders would roll Battle (Leadership in 3e I guess modified by being outnumbered and by what type of troops are on each side) against each other to determine how the overall fight is going (adding bonuses or penalties to the players and the end of turn battleroll depending on how well the fight is going)
and at the same time the players make a single resisted weapon oriented roll against the current enemy. Once in a while they'd come up against special enemies (kings, heroes, giants) and a complete fight would be played out before the next battle turn (this could be determined randomly or in advance on a tracker ie. chaos champion at 5 demon prince at 8...).
At the end of the turn the commander again rolls resisted leadership to determine losses (example: no successes = big losses to your side, 1 success = losses on both sides, etc. etc. Chaos star = penalties next turn or loss of hero, Sigmar = fewer losses on your side or bonus to next roll).

Needs some fleshing (difficulties, loss percentages, etc.) out but should be doable - especially if you are familiar with Pendragon.

Pendragon was actually exactly what I had in mind and I was already considering of using either tracker or comeths/chaos stars to indicate "difficult opponent".

I have the fan-rules for WFRP2 made by someone with Legend of the Five Rings (if I remember correctly) and I also own Savage Worlds. The options are varied and I'm not under any illusion that the outcome would satisfy everybody. But I'll try to take swing at this when I've more time.

Any updates on this? Not something I will be using soon, but very interested for something like this down the road.

Green Ronin's Song of Ice and Fire might also have some inspiration. It includes abstract noble house rules and forming armies.

You could always be true to the IP and use Warhammer Fantasy Battles or the rules for Mordheim for a more granular scale.

Spivo said:

Probably overly detailed for what you are thinking of, but I like the idea of using the free games workshop Warmaster rules with WRFP3. The abstract distances in WFRP3 might jive really well with the epic scale of warmaster, allowing the players to zoom in and fight pivotal moments with the RP rules while they command troops resolve combat with the miniatures rules.

Sturn said:

Sorry but no. I doubt I'll find any time for this in the near future either...

What I was thinking for mass combat is quite simple, but may work. It is just some dice rolls per round.

The dice pools are both the offensive power and also the health of the army, dice are removed for casualties.

The GM decides the Morale of each side that is a scale of 1 to 5 normally, based on what situation they are in. When Morale hits 0 the army is routed.

There is no initiative, both sides role their dice at the same time and then remove casualty dice.

Generals = 1 yellow die

Basic infantry = 1 white die per 10 men (or whatever number of men you decide)

Heavy troops = 1 Blue die per 10 men

Gunners = 1 Green die per 10 men [if a time delay comes up on a die, set that die aside for the next round. It can be used for a casualty]

Cavalry = 1 Red die per 10 men [A Fatigue result counts as a casualty for the Cavalry]

Adjust the above as you see fit, but every round you roll the 2 opposing dice pools against each other, adding 1 purple die and defence dice determined by GM.

Every Success equals a casualty for the other side, remove 1 die from their pool (10 men either died, were knocked unconscious/wounded, or fled).

A morale point can be spent in place of a casualty

A chaos star drops morale 1 point and maybe something bad happens

2 Boons, increase Morale by 1

2 Banes, decrease Morale by 1

these are very flexible and can be adjusted, play tested. But you get the idea.

To appeal to the wargame strategists out there, you could even include rules for using the card-stock standees and a hex mat of some sort, with the standees representing units and leader type characters.