I think its too expensive raise a attribute. Its obvious that expending a single advance is too cheap to raise a attr too, so I tought about something like this:

The cost of raising a attr is equal to the new value - 2, BUT you have to buy a "fortune" die first, and when you raise the attr, you lose one fortune die. That way, thinking about 2nd edition, the white die is the 5% raise and a blue die is a 10%.

If you have 2 in a attribute, it will cost 2 advances (one for the fortune, other for the attr) to get it to 3

to 4, it will cost 3

to 5, it will cost 4

to 6, cost 5

ill try on my table saturday, but what do you guys think?

Attributes are just as expensive as they need to be.

I think many are forgetting the tons of extra bonuses that comes from atributes, vs. fortune points.

Of course, the obvious, that stat dice are better than fortune dice, but there's much much more than that, let me sum it up...:

- Opposed checks, having 3 in Int, when an npc with 3 Fellowship is lying to you, means you have 2 Challenge dice, raising this to Int 4, you suddenly both have an extra stat dice, BUT also one less challenge dice! Getting Int to 5 means 1 challenge dice vs. 4 Fel, and of course having Int 6 means no challenge dice vs. Fel of 3... not that it matter much of course, seeing as you'll have 6 stat dice, but consider though, that a stat of 6, vs. 3, means that you'll almost never fail (what are the odds of not rolling a single success???), and of course, a Fel 6 rogue, will never fail convincing city guards of his innocence...

- Stress/Fatigue threshold are affected. Longer before you pass out, go insane, get misfortune dice etc...

- Strength adds encumbrance limit (which a str 3 char reaches very very fast!!!) and adds damage, and allows for Improved parry at str 4 (with WS)

- Toughness adds soak that can't be pierced, and allows improved block at toughness 4 (with RES)

- Agility adds damage, and allows improved dodge at agility 4 (with COR)

- Int adds spell damage

- WP raises your equilibrium, and allows for improved guarded position (with DISC). Some spells also use WP as soak

- Fel really has no further use, apart the opposed checks.

I'd say, that raising most stats to 4 will be well paid of for most chars, and 5 for those that use the stat a lot. 6 will often not be worth it, but I think a lot of fighters will appreciate Tou 6, casters WP 6 and smooth-talkers Fel 6.

Great... forgot that WP and Tou are also threshold for when you go insane (wp), die from crits (tou) and when you start mutating (Tou).

100% likely forgot other stuff, but attributes pay of!!!

I agree with Spivo and zwobot, I feel that the attribute costs are appropriate. Spivo's examples of benifits associated with the different attributes are very good at illustrating why they are so expensive as well.

Sorry, double post (stupid computer!)

personally I would leave the attributes alone, you will seriously throw game balance out.

I agree that attribute costs are reasonable and appropriate. All players in my game have allocated points to increasing attributes without complaint.

Thanks for the answers ppl. You are right about all of this. I will ignore the urges to lower the stat cost

chikago666 said: