During our recent games, an issue came up over how to deal with units withe special movement abilities during deployment. Namely units with Fast and Charge, can they use their abilities at the same time as they are deploying? Deployment rules say that: "Their first action on the battlefield is always a one square move, symbolizing the fact that the unit “enters” the gameboard."

1) By the rules of Fast, the unit can move an extra square with a Move action, so can he enter the board, move that extra square and then use his second action to fire?

2) With Charge a unit can make a double move and still attack, so can he enter the board, make a second Move and then attack an adjacent enemy with Range 1 weapons?

3) What about units with a Move greater than 1? Say, Move 2. Can then enter the board, then move one square and then use the 2nd action to attack?

My thoughts are that 1 and 2 are correct, but not 3.

"During our recent games, an issue came up over how to deal with units withe special movement abilities during deployment. Namely units with Fast and Charge, can they use their abilities at the same time as they are deploying?"

Yes

Deployment rules say that: "Their first action on the battlefield is always a one square move, symbolizing the fact that the unit “enters” the gameboard."

1) By the rules of Fast, the unit can move an extra square with a Move action, so can he enter the board, move that extra square and then use his second action to fire?

Yes bc it says you get an extra square to move. This rule would happen after the 1 square movement.

2) With Charge a unit can make a double move and still attack, so can he enter the board, make a second Move and then attack an adjacent enemy with Range 1 weapons?

Yes You would still only be able to move 2 squares. If it's movement 2 then it would make 3.

3) What about units with a Move greater than 1? Say, Move 2. Can then enter the board, then move one square and then use the 2nd action to attack?

No you can only move the 1 then either move 2 more squares or shoot. So a max of 1-3 for move 2.

So what you're saying is that, for a unit that's just deploying and shooting (Move+Shoot) it makes absolutely no difference if it has Move 1, Move 2 or Move 10, since the deployment itself uses an entire Move action. Though abilities that grant you a bonus beyond your Move action still aplly normally (extra square for Fast, Shoot action after double move for Charge).

Change it, you can only move 1. states "Move once thats it no other abilities can be used." pg 16

Uh, say what? That was a really broken post. I can see nothing on page 16 saying you can't use any abilities when deploying. It only says not all options are available, since you already made a Move.

ok I quoted myself lol. It says you move once and since you've moved you can only shoot or move again hince there isn't any ability able to be used on the first movement.

Easiest way to view it is that your unit starts of table adjacent to where it wishes to enter. Start play from there. 1st action has to be a move with the first square counting as its 1st square of movement - exactly the same as if you were anywhere else on the board.

Thats partially wrong you can move an addition square(s) if you have movement 2 or fast. on your first move any other time than the one entering the table.

And I figured out how to word it.

You can use fast only on you second movement.

You can use charge I would think right off because its all one action that takes up 2 actions.

You can use assault but you would only move 3 square instead of 4.

You can only move 1 square even if you have movement 2.

Well, that's not exactly what it's saying. It just says that not all options are available (like sustained fire). It says nothing on the use of abilities with that first Move that gets you on the board. And regarding Charge, if it says you CAN make a double move, why would you be unable to use Charge, which allows you to attack after making a double move?

After reading the rule on page 15 again it does say that the first action must be a one square move. So that's it, 1 action - move onto board one square, 1st action ends.

Well, yeah, a one-square Move. But you have an ability that grants you an extra square when you make such a one-square Move. The extra square in Fast is not part of the unit's Move rating, it's an added bonus.

And I still think Charge applies. If the deploy rules allow for a double move...

See i would say no you can bc it would say you can use fast and it doesnt and fast grants you an extra movement not make you move an extra tile so thats my justification.

arkangl said:

I see your point. Though I still think this whole issue is very murky. Again, it would have been better if they had been clearer in the writing and stated that the deployment completely depletes a unit's first action, not allowing for any extra movement or use of abilities. Anything he does that round must be done with the unit's second action.

Loophole Master said:

1.Deployment is not MOVE action so no Fast ability ( no jump as well for example)

2. Charge req double MOVE action - deployment is not MOVE action so no charge.

3.Deployment is not MOVE action so does no uses MOVE related stats etc. so no.

RULES are clear for me

hope that helps

cheers

Poyet, your whole argument is based on "Deployment is not a MOVE", and this is simply not true. Time and again the rulebook classifies deployment as a Move. The rules always use the arrow symbol ( -> ) to symbolize a MOVE action. And here it says:

"Their first action on the battlefield is always a one square move ( -> ), symbolizing the fact that the unit “enters” the gameboard."

And if deployment wasn't a Move, why would the example say:

"The Allies player spends this -> to enter the gameboard, and decides to perform a double movement. So it moves another square and is deactivated. ( MOVE + MOVE)"

Deployment is clearly a Move action, which leaves us with all these questions dangling.

So sorry LOOPHOLE my mistake.

I just re-read rules on pg.16

and according to example you right .

In example deployment is 1 square part of MOVE action.

And that makes rules unclear. Its almost as the person who write example misunderstand rules as well :>

Translators Eh?!

btw in first couple of games we misunderstand rules as well and played with standard deployment as round thing.

so....

if

yes

"...He chooses to play his Hot Dog
first: the robot has 1. The Allies player spends this to enter the gameboard,"

but i still prefer DEPLOYMENT is action

cheers

While I agree that abilities like Fast and Charge should be usable during the deployment move action, I think the Move rating itself doesn't affect deployment.

A unit with Move 2 will usually perform a "two squares move" on a single action. However, the deployment rules say that the unit's first action must be a "one square move". That at least is set in stone. The deployment action is a one square move . So a higher Move rating should not affect that, you still only perform a "one square move" even if your Move is 5. However, abilities like Fast are not part of the Move rating, so the unit could perform this one square move and then add the 1 -> to his movement.

Of course, the second action is unaffected, and a unit performing a double move during deployment would move according to its Move rating in the 2nd action.

Hey LOOP

There are two option here

deployment count as 1 square part of MOVE action .

or DEPLOYMENT is action that is like 1 square move (so you need to be able to cross the terrain and you are under reactive fire rules) .

Yes it need clarification (decision).

Iam against special MOVE (your option) that is not MOVE at all. Thats just bad rule writing.

btw:

Loophole Master said:

its not "...is a one square move" because unit just apper on board in deployment zone.Its count as -"symbolizing the fact that the unit “enters” the

Gods.... it would indeed have been much simpler if they had not called deployment a Move, but just a specific special action, that simply places the unit on the board. However, that is not what they did, and my friend just loves to deploy a Loth and charge into the fray at the same time.

Loophole Master said:

hey loop , i play axis so you know iam working against my allies here

in any ruling he still be able to do it.

DEPLOY+MOVE+ charge

and

MOVE (as deployment) + MOVE + charge

charge works with second MOVE

but in case of FAST for your BBQ

rulebook 17pg

"Abilities and Special Units

Yeah, I think right now my conclusion is:

- Fast can be used in deployment, allowing the unit to deploy, move one square and then use his second action to attack.

- Charge can be used in deployment, allowing the unit to deploy, perform a second move and then attack any adjacent enemies with Range 1 and C weapons.

- Units with a Move rating greater than 1 get no benefit during deployment. Their first action will still be to just deploy (enter the first square on the board).

Heh, I bet the ruling comes down that "deploy" moves are simply counted as being in a notional square just off the map. So all the above would apply and a Move X unit can move X on the turn it deploys with the deployment square counting as the first square.

Algesan said:

Actually, that's the one thing that the rules quite clearly don't allow. How can you justify starting your turn with a move action of 2 or 3 squares, when the rules explicitly say "Their first action on the battlefield is always a one square move".

And as I write this I think I'm going to disallow the use of Fast as well. The first ACTION is a one square move. An ACTION is the whole thing, it is everything you do until your second action. So if the first one can't be more than a single square, the bonus square of Fast shouldn't be allowed.

Charge is still game though, since it only really kicks in on the second action, and it is clearly possible to perform a MOVE+MOVE during deployment.

Maybe the intention of the rules is that deployment just uses up one of you move squares, simple and logical. It doesn't seem right that a Fast unit can move an extra square and a unit that is even faster (M2) can't. But then again, whenever I have used logic to solve a question in DT I've been wrong As far as I see it there are really only 2 fair, balanced and simple options, you can't add if/but/maybe's with individual skills, so:

1) Deployment uses up one of your move squares.

2) Deployment uses up an entire action.