Since it takes 1/2 a turn to attack...can you shoot a flamer 2x? Or any weapon for that matter without it being auto?

By default, I don't believe you can make two attack actions in one turn.

Captain Ventris said:

That's correct. AS WRITTEN, this isn't clear since the actual rules only say you can't use the exact same action twice (which would mean you could make a Standard Attack and a Called Shot in Power Armor as your turn). It has since been cleared up a number of times, and you're limited to a single attack action each turn. Hence, no casting Smite then swinging your sword at an enemy.

There's also information in the official errata about how to treat psychic powers with attacks. Basically, any power that does damage or is targeted on an opponent gains the Attack subtype and thus can't be used the same round as another attack.

Thanx again, Brand...

Besides, the exact same action (in this case, a Standard Attack) can't be done twice in a turn unless the text of the specifically says so, as in the case of the Ready action.

HDaniel said:

Yes, but by RAW you can make multiple attacks a round. Example: a Dev with a Heavy Bolter and Suspensor could make a Full Auto Burst (Half Action from the Suspensor) then Quick Draw his Bolt Pistol and make a Called Shot (Half Action from Power Armor). Those are two separate actions. That's why the clarification was needed originally about not being able to make multiple actions in a round with the Attack subtype - things like that scenario or using Psychic Powers and attacking were unclear.

Brand said:

No they can't. You aren't allowed to do multiples of the same action subtype in a turn. Therefore you could do the Full Auto Burst, but not the bolt pistol shot.

MILLANDSON said:

Read what I said. Strictly going by RAW, yes you can. I'm not saying that's how it should be, and I even pointed out that this has since been cleared up to restrict you to one action with the Attack subtype per round (if you still have a problem, read the preceding sentence again because it's what I've said all along). But going by what was in the book, what's printed on the page, there's nothing about not making multiple attacks as long as you use different actions.

Brand said:

Going strictly by RAW - no they can't.

Errata p4 - "the power gains the Attack Subtype (see page 237), and thus cannot be combined with any other Attack Subtype actions".

If you use one Attack Subtype action in a round, you cannot use another - regardless of whether it's a different action, because it's the Action Subtype that matters.

MILLANDSON said:

One more time: " But going by what was in the book , what's printed on the page, there's nothing about not making multiple attacks as long as you use different actions."

You are quoting the errata.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Except the errata are RAW - they are the updated rules as written. It also states that the errata contents are to be, either figeratively or literally, substituted into the main rulebook, which means that once the errata is released, it counts as being in the book.

It's basically just dancing around with semantics. Why say "this is what is in the book" when the errata has stated that what is in the book is wrong?

I'm starting to think you're just being deliberately obtuse just so you can have an argument. Here, I'll break down what I said and try to make it as easy as possible.

But going by what was in the book,

We're talking about the book here. The rules in the book. The rules that were shipped out with the very first copy of Deathwatch to land in a player's hands.

what's printed on the page,

The words on the page. The words printed in black ink by FFG and not some notes added in later by someone else. Not errata, not other books, just the printed words in the Deathwatch Core Rulebook.

there's nothing about not making multiple attacks as long as you use different actions.

The printed words in the Deathwatch Core Rulebook, the Rules As Written, only say that you can't take the same exact Action twice. There is no mention of subtypes.

I'm agreeing with you that you can't attack more than once. I've never said otherwise. But the rules as presented to us do not include that restriction. For that, you have to look to these forums or the errata, which not everyone who plays the game will do. Yes, the change is official. I'm not arguing that. But if it's not down in the book, not the Rules As Written for everyone who bought the game to see, then you can be certain plenty of people will miss it.

I'm pretty sure the only way to get two flamer shots would be with two hand flamers and either lightning attack or swift attack with two weapon weilder: ballistic. This would give you 3-4 shots with a hand flamer.

You are only allowed ONE ATTACK action in a turn. Swift attack, lighting attack, and two-weapon weilder (melee or ballistic), and prenatural speed are the only ways to get addidtional attacks actions. If you have counter attack, then you are able to make an attack after you successfully parry (which is a reaction so this is a way to get an additional attack in a round).

You can't use Smite plus a melee or shooting attack because Smite is classified as an attack. There are no rules, that I am aware of, that allow characters to use more than one pyschic attack in a turn.

Short answer, without the use of talents, you ONLY get one standard attack a round.

Lightning and Swift attack are for melee weapons

But two flamers already enable you to shoot each of them. It's a Full action, and you get -20 to each (because you're Ambidextrous: it would be -20 for the directive hand and -40 for the other if not), -10 only if you have Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic).

MILLANDSON said:

They are to be literally substituted into the main rulebook? No.

MILLANDSON said:

It's not dancing with semantics, it's explaining why the question of the OP is valid.

Alex

And his question is answered clearly by the errata - a non-optional part of the core rules.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

Of course it's optional. Even the rules in the book are optional. The errata is just official; I've seen plenty of errata in my time that I've ignored because it didn't fit with the game I wanted to play/run. Case in point - the incredibly nerfed version of Unrelenting Devestation that is now in the DW errata. If someone from FFG is coming to your home and holding a gun to your head to force you to use their rules and their rules only, by all means let the rest of us know. I may have to start locking my doors again.

Also, as I brought up, not everyone hangs out on the forum a lot (if at all) so many don't know about the errata.

H.B.M.C. said:

That is what has been said by Brand in #3, further elaborated by an explanation why the question of the OP was legitimate. In case of any doubt, I suggest a brief revision of the interchanges in this topic.

Alex