FFG Forum Archive

Posted at 2011-06-27 19:54:31+00:00

A: 9/33 Beastmen, 0/4 Ogres, 1/26 Bane Spiders, 4/7 Nagas, 5/12 Hell Hounds, 3/21 Razorwings, 1/4 Wendigos, 0/3 Manticores, 0/3 Lava Beetles, 10/90 Skeletons, 9/14 Sorcerers, 0/2 Shades

Totals: Humanoid: 46 (9 of these are Masters), Beast: 90 (14 Masters), Eldritch: 125 (19 Masters)

B: 6/27 Beastmen, 0/6 Ogres, 1/0 Medusa, 0/16 Bane Spiders, 2/8 Naga, 3/9 Hell Hounds, 3/19 Razorwings, 0/3 Wendigos, 0/3 Manticore, 12/71 Skeletons, 7/35 Sorcerers, 1/4 Shades, 0/1 Demon

Totals: Humanoid: 40 (7 Masters), Beast: 66 (8 Masters), Eldritch: 131 (20 Masters)

C: 1/23 Beastmen, 16/70 Kobolds, 9/17 Ferrox, 0/14 Bane Spiders, 0/8 Hell Hounds, 2/18 Razorwings, 0/1 Manticore, 0/4 Wendigos, 7/66 Skeletons, 2/8 Sorcerers, 0/3 Shades, 3/5 Golems

Totals: Humanoid: 136 (26 Masters), Beast: 47 (2 Masters), Eldritch: 93 (12 Masters)

D: 1/20 Beastmen, 7/11 Deep Elves, 0/3 Ferrox, 0/3 Ogres, 2/4 Trolls, 0/17 Bane Spiders, 0/3 Hell Hounds, 3/17 Razorwings, 0/4 Wendigos, 1/5 Blood Apes, 4/69 Skeletons, 3/9 Sorcerers, 4/21 Dark Priests, 2/0 Shades, 0/1 Golem, 1/1 Chaos Beasts

Totals: Humanoid: 51 (10 Masters), Beast: 50 (4 Masters), Eldritch: 115 (14 Masters)

Leaders Dungeons: 6/1 Beastmen, 2 Ogres, 4 Giants, 2 Bane Spiders, 2 Naga, 3 Hell Hounds, 3 Razorwings, 2 Manticore, 1 Wendigo, 3 Dragons, 10 Skeletons, 9 Sorcerers, 1 Shade, 1 Ice Wyrm, 4 Demons

Totals: Humanoid: 13, Beast: 16, Eldritch: 25 (in all cases except 1 Beastman these are all Masters, and all of them including the Beastman are Leaders)

Named: 1 Giant (there are no others, just the one)

Rumors: 7/20 Beastmen, 1/6 Ogres, 1/2 Deep Elves, 1/3 Kobolds, 1/1 Ferrox, 6/1 Bane Spiders, 0/2 Naga, 8/9 Hell Hounds, 0/17 Razorwings, 1/0 Manticore, 2/2 Wendigo, 0/2 Dragons, 15/32 Skeletons, 5/2 Sorcerers, 0/1 Dark Priest, 2/3 Shades, 0/1 Golem, 1/0 Chaos Beast, 0/1 Ice Wyrm, 0/1 Demon

Totals: Humanoid: 43 (11 Masters), Beast: 50 (17 Masters), Eldritch: 63 (23 Masters)

Rumor Leaders: 1 Skeleton, 6 Sorcerers, 3 Beastmen, 2 Ogres, 1 Ice Wyrm, 1 Giant, 1 Demon

Totals: Humanoid: 6, Beast: 0, Eldritch: 9 (all Masters/Leaders)

Encounters: 0/10 Beastmen, 0/12 Kobolds, 0/4 Ferrox, 0/1 Ogre, 0/2 Trolls, 0/6 Bane Spiders, 0/4 Naga, 0/8 Hell Hounds, 3/5 Razorwings, 0/2 Manticores, 0/4 Lava Beetles, 0/2 Wendigos, 0/3 Blood Apes, 2/6 Skeletons, 0/7 Sorcerers, 0/3 Shades,

Totals: Humanoid: 29 (no Masters), Beast: 37 (3 Masters), Eldritch: 18 (2 Masters)

Encounters Leaders: 2 Beastmen, 1 Kobold, 1 Ferrox, 3 Ogres, 1 Deep Elf, 1 Medusa, 1 Troll, 1 Giant, 1 Bane Spider, 1 Naga, 1 Hellhound, 1 Razorwing, 1 Manticore, 1 Lava Beetle, 1 Wendigo, 1 Blood Ape, 1 Dragon, 2 Sorcerers, 1 Dark Priest, 1 Shade, 2 Golems, 1 Chaos Beast, 1 Ice Wyrm, 1 Demon

Totals: Humanoid: 11, Beast: 9, Eldritch: 9 (all Masters/Leaders)

A, B, C, and D represent the four different options available for the OL to choose from, the first number is Masters, the second is regular, the dungeon leaders are seperate. I did this for myself and figured if anyone was interested they could make use of it. It is difficult to add up totals since an OL would be able to choose into any of the A, B, C, or D categories for his placement choice. Below are six totals, one of each of the OL's A-D options added to everything else, and the fifth being a complete total of everything above. The sixth is all of the Leader Totals.

A Total: Humanoid: 149 (20 Masters, 30 Leaders), Beast: 202 (34 Masters, 25 Leaders), Eldritch: 249 (44 Masters, 43 Leaders)

B Total: Humanoid: 143 (18 Masters, 30 Leaders), Beast: 169 (28 Masters, 25 Leaders), Eldritch: 255 (45 Masters, 43 Leaders)

C Total: Humanoid: 239 (37 Masters, 30 Leaders), Beast: 159 (22 Masters, 25 Leaders), Eldritch: 217 (37 Masters, 43 Leaders)

D Total: Humanoid: 154 (21 Masters, 30 Leaders), Beast: 162 (24 Masters, 25 Leaders), Eldritch: 239 (39 Masters, 43 Leaders)

Leader Totals: Humanoid: 30, Beast: 25, Eldritch: 43 (all but one are Masters with bonuses)

All Totals: Humanoid: 376 (93), Beast: 365 (73), Eldritch: 588 (133) - (includes all regular Monsters, Leaders, Masters, Named, and all level choices labled A-D, the number in brackets is the total Master/Leaders of each class)

Posted at 2011-06-27 20:37:28+00:00

Caverns of Thuul: 3/11 Razorwings, 1/0 Manticore, 3/0 Dragons (technically the same one over and over)

Total: Humanoid: 0, Beast: 14 (3 Masters), Eldritch: 3 (Leaders)

The Fools Rapids: 1/0 Giants (Leader), 0/4 Skeletons, 0/2 Naga, 0/2 Manticores

Total: Humanoid: 1 (Leader), Beast 4 (no Masters), Eldtritch 4 (no Masters)

The Valley of Souls: 2/0 Ogres, 1/0 Naga, 1/0 Manticore, 5/0 Skeletons, 2/0 Sorcerers, 1/0 Demon (Leader)

Total: Humanoid: 2, Beast: 2, Eldritch: 8

Posted at 2011-06-28 02:37:37+00:00

Parts Required from the Various Descent Boxes for use with RtL, this is a complete list covering AoD, WoD, ToI and the original Descent game boxes and their contents. I will modify when I pick up SoB. This does not include Cards, just Tiles/Tokens/Markers used in the game. Some of you might find this useful for cutting down on what you keep handy for the game.

Descent: Journeys in the Dark

Tiles for Dungeon Cards/Rumors/Legendary Map Layouts:
-Rooms: two 4x4 (except for one Legendary level which requires 4), four 4x6 , two 8x8 (this is all of the original rooms)
-Corridors: five 2x2, seven 2x4, two 2x6, 6 corner tiles
-Intersections: 4 T-intersections, 2 cross intersections
-EndCaps: 20 (11 for all dungeon card and rumor map dungeons, it only jumps due to the Legendary Maps)
-Doors: All three Rune and 4 regular.
Props :
-Pits/Water: 4 single/2 double/1 Triple
-Rubble: 5 single/2 double/1 Triple
-Encounter Markers: 10
-Glyphs: 4 (Copper Level Legendary Dungeon will require 6)
-Stairs: All 3 pairs
Tokens:
-Treasure: 3
-Chest: 2 (of each color if you like to signify current campaign level, or just Gold)
-All Potions (Healing/Vitality), Money, Fatigue, Wound, Order, Threat, Conquest, Turn Tiles, Effect Tokens (Poison/Stun/Burn), Training Tokens, Monkey & Familiars.

Well of Darkness: (Mostly required for Rumor Level #11, except for Power Potions, Familiars and Effects Tiles)

Props:
-Mud: 2
-Dart Field: 1
-Boulder Ramp: 1 corner turn
-Boulder: 1
-Scything Blade Trap: 1 (only used for one rumor level and Trap card costing 1 Treachery to add to your deck).
-Bolt Template: only needed if you buy 2 Trap Treachery and the card Lightning Runes with it.
-All Effect Tokens (Bleed/Daze), Power Potions, and both Familiars.

Altar of Despair: (Mostly required for Rumor Level #12, except Effects and some Familiars)

Props:
-Fog: 10 single
-Corrupted: 11 single
-Dark Glyphs: only needed if appropriate Treachery is spent to purchase them.
-Altars: 2
-Familiar/Special Treasure: 3 (Sharr is removed according to the FaQ)
-All Effect tokens (Curse/Frost)

Tomb of Ice:

Tiles for Dungeon Cards/Rumor/Encounter Map Layouts:
-Rooms: one 10x10 room, seven 4x4 rooms (A,C,D,E,F,G, and H)
-Corridors: three 3x2 tiles, two 2x2 summer to winter conversion tiles, two 1x2 summer to winter conversion tiles, two corners (3x3x2). (all corridor tiles used are outdoor tiles).
-Intersections: None
-Outdoor Endcaps/Exits: 5 winter themed endcaps and 1 winter themed exit tile
Props:
-Ice: 3 single/2 double/2 triple/two 6x2/two 2x2
-Stomach Tile: needed three times (one Rumor, one Encounter, one Card level)
-All Invisibility Potions

Posted at 2011-06-28 02:40:06+00:00

It should also be noted that the OL Keeps may also require more map parts than listed, however that is based solely on the Avatar chosen, and the map layout for their Keep. Since this map layout only comes once during the entire game, and at the end of it, there was no point in adding it yet.

Posted at 2011-06-28 03:17:02+00:00

Veritech said:

Caverns of Thuul: 3/11 Razorwings, 1/0 Manticore, 3/0 Dragons (technically the same one over and over)

Total: Humanoid: 0, Beast: 14 (3 Masters), Eldritch: 3 (Leaders)

Dragons are Beasts, not Eldritch

Posted at 2011-06-28 06:40:35+00:00

I don't mean to sound rude, but you titled this thread "useful RtL numbers." This is all very interesting in a "big picture" kind of way, but how are these numbers useful?

Posted at 2011-06-28 13:19:08+00:00

Thanx Corbon, I was rushed to get out the door to a physio appointment and didn't double check that last quick post. I hate the lack of editing options on these forums, now I understand why most other companies upgraded theirs.

Steve-O said:

I don't mean to sound rude, but you titled this thread "useful RtL numbers." This is all very interesting in a "big picture" kind of way, but how are these numbers useful?

You're not being rude, and I'm not done yet, and this isn't my topic, it's a general topic for anyone who has useful RtL stats or numbers to share. As for the numbers of monsters total being useful. I know alot of people have asked what is exactly "needed" to play RtL using the original box and expansions, if you look at the tokens/markers/tiles, you find you can put a large amount of them aside for an average campaign (more than half). Doing this cleaned up my table and what was required for RtL to be played significantly.

As to the "amount" of each type of Monster, Masters or Leaders gives you a good idea as an OL or Player some strategy right off the bat. Already I can tell if an OL is playing Humanoid as their main and as heroes you fall behind the OL in CT then visiting the Legendary dungeons for the bonuses from them should be a cakewalk, unless maybe a second class (Eldritch/Beast) is upgraded. I admit these are "general" class stats, and that the types of monsters encountered within each class makes a very large difference. I can see now why skeletons are such a threat under the Eldritch class, it isn't because they are hard, but simply the sheer amount of numbers compared to other monsters. Even though they are far weaker by comparison to others in the same level category.

A minor example of usefulness using the most common monster from each class:

Humanoid Beastmen: 169 (36 are Masters/Leaders), Beast Razorwings: 115 (15 Masters/Leaders), Eldritch Skeletons: 395 (61 are Masters/Leaders).

I am aware that anyone with half a brain would realize there were more Skeletons than most other things, but I wasn't aware it was by that much, did you?

I am not sure how SoB balances this out but I noticed that in almost every case Eldritch is definitely higher in numbers and chances to encounter than either Beast or Humanoid, and not in little increments, but in large jumps. This puts Eldritch at "hard", Humanoid at "medium", and Beast at "easy" when it comes to comparing them for chances to encounter overall in the game (being harder or easier depending on which Avatar is chosen). It makes me glad I didn't choose Beast as my main and makes me wonder if I will ever bother, maybe if I'm playing with some kids. I do know that Beasts are very useful in Outdoor encounters, especially Soaring Ltn's. While most "long time" players may know these numbers on average, most starting or learning OL's could make use of this in choosing out where they want to start, there are always 10 times as many lurkers as posters. If something like this had been around, rather than the occasional "Eldritch is the best" comment which was usually followed shortly by someone claiming that Beast was better, or Humanoid. At least now rather than have random peoples comments on the subject (since it is hard not to be biased to a favorite type for some), a player can scan those numbers and decide on a campaign type that will suit their gamers.

In my case I have highly intelligent, strategic players who have been gaming for 20-35 years in some cases, a few longer. I am not disappointed that I chose "Humanoid" as my main class first time around, but I probably would have gone with an Eldritch Avatar instead after seeing these numbers. As powerful as an Avatar can be or become at the end of the game, it matters little unless the heroes make it that far. I'm also not saying the Beast class is useless, there are certain circumstances where they do rule the board (outdoor encounters mostly), and when razorwings start to really get MP they become a far more serious threat.

This clarifys for me conversations I read earlier where there were "discussions" that turned into more of "these are my favorite types of monsters to play" rather than "these are the hardest, and these are the easiest for the heroes to play against".

Tthe next post will be regarding monsters, the one after heroes. Maybe you will find those numbers more useful. Also anyone who is more into percentages and stats can make some good use out of that first chart to show how varied the different classes are. I didn't do this chart for the "years long gamer" but for the new players that are coming into descent and don't want their first game to be ruined by being too overpowered or too weak.

Posted at 2011-06-29 08:50:14+00:00

I would like to see these numbers for SoB, and then mixed. I think with the addition of SoB dungeon levels into RtL, it helps even things out a bit.

Posted at 2011-06-29 12:23:43+00:00

duhtch said:

I would like to see these numbers for SoB, and then mixed. I think with the addition of SoB dungeon levels into RtL, it helps even things out a bit.

After reading so many posts about how Descent may be at the end of production, and the varied comments regarding SoB unbalance issues and bad sales I will be picking it up this cheque rather than risk having to buy a super expensive copy online later (a local store has both the SoB expansion and redone water gameboard for sale still). When I do, whether I play it or not anytime soon I will be doing similiar with it and yes again mixed so you'll see it pop up soon eneogh unless someone else jumps the gun on me first.

Posted at 2011-06-29 14:28:45+00:00

I have it, but I am too lazy to do what you just did. From what I know, is that Eldritch are a lot less prevalent in the SoB maps. If I were to actually play SoB, I would definitely be using RtL dungeon cards as well as the SoB cards, just as I am doing with our RtL campaigns.

Posted at 2011-06-30 00:15:02+00:00

I bought them today, so the numbers will likely be added tomorrow, if SoB balances out the classes, it would be a nice turn of events, and would make it completely worth the price. I suspect it might be the case since they seem to at least keep the dungeon numbers on a steady climb (1-74).

I can see from the contents already that SoB is disappointingly lacking compared to the other expansions and the main game in general, mostly you end up paying for a game you can really get into over a long time. I am now aware of which double sided tile has both sides required for two of the encounter maps and am as disappointed as anyone else with it. I will have to copy/print something and glue it to matboard to solve that issue.

Posted at 2011-06-30 12:42:50+00:00

Veritech said:

I bought them today, so the numbers will likely be added tomorrow, if SoB balances out the classes, it would be a nice turn of events, and would make it completely worth the price. I suspect it might be the case since they seem to at least keep the dungeon numbers on a steady climb (1-74).

I can see from the contents already that SoB is disappointingly lacking compared to the other expansions and the main game in general, mostly you end up paying for a game you can really get into over a long time. I am now aware of which double sided tile has both sides required for two of the encounter maps and am as disappointed as anyone else with it. I will have to copy/print something and glue it to matboard to solve that issue.

yeah, but for some more money, you can get a real game board! genius move by FFG. yes, SoB is lacking. after playing about 2 sessions, our grouped moved to RtL. we are a newer descent group as of last year, so we haven't played RtL yet, so it was an easy transition, where we didn't have to play the same game over and over.

Posted at 2011-06-30 13:49:55+00:00