New operation comes with new rules for Close Combat weapons.

But only Knifes and Knifes&Grenades are marked as range C.

What about Axis Mechs with Claws (Loth for example)? Are these claws must have range C too?

The rules really don't say that the Luther's Kampzange is a C weapon. Since they pretty clearly list that the C weapons from previously released units are limited to Knife and Knife & Grenade, it seems they really don't consider the Kampzange a C weapon.

I, however, don't agree with that. All melee weapons should be range C. If a pack of heavy rangers come jumping on my walker, punching it with turbo gloves, I **** well should be able to retaliate with a nice squeeze of my battle claw.

Who knows for sure? On one hand they say that the previous close combat weapons will be adjusted to C, but then fail to mention the Kampflange.

Dunno, in this case I think we can safely say that the Kampfzange is officially NOT range C.

Though in my game it is.

wouldnt it be sort of slow to be a good close combat weapon? just trying to see the other side

I think the reason for not including the Kampfzange is because the only weapons that the Close Combat rules applies for are "hand-to-hand" combat weapons (the knife).

I guess the Kampfzange is not considered to be a hand- to-hand weapon but is instead seen as a short range weapon. Makes sense to me.

Quote from the Close Combat rules:

"" To expound a bit more: When you declare attacks with a squad and announce that one
of your weapons is “Knife” or “Knife & Grenade,” resolve attacks from all other weapons
first. Your opponent removes casualties caused by these other wepons (if any) before
resolving the hand-to-hand (range C) weapon. Your opponent can then retaliate against
your close-combat attack with his surviving units (if any). Attacks made by weapons at
range C are then resolved simultaneously (i.e., both players roll dice at the same time). ""

If you use the Kampfzange as having the new "c" range then Demolition charges should also have that as their range.

I'm just saying. . . . . .

FlorisH said:

Why, you don't hit someone with a demo charge, and they take time to prepare.

Major Mishap said:

The Kampfzange is a slow moving claw that is used to pull chunks of metal of tanks and crush infantry, it is not a fast moving fist that can be used to defend in close combat.
Demo charges can only be used against things that you are in contact with. I'm just saying that if anybody feels that storywise the Kampfzange is a "c" weapon then the same can be said about a demo charge.

And yes you can hit somebody with a democharge. The basic instructions don't say that you can't* (it is obviously not advised to use a democharge to hit somebody).

* to be fair the instructions don't go into much detail about what not to do with the democharge. It is more about the intended use instead of any do and don'ts

Hey The question is, for C weapon ,if you can defend in close combat with weapon not attack . I think its more Close Combat Stat than close combat weapon type btw.

Its obvious that Demo Charge is 1- http://www.youtube.com/user/MarineSniperZT#p/u/3/HUv4b2h1NNM :-7:37 to see how it works

For Kampzange for balance sake it need to be C if its stay 1 with new charge rules is worthless.

FlorisH said:

Btw you miss the point .

Infantry vs Kampfzange

If you Attack with demo you wont it to be 1 and CombatARm to be C -obvious

If you defend you prefer demo to be 1 and CombatArm to be C -you will survive round of attack then double in retaliation with demo (if demo C you will loose some models again).or you can reactive fire with demo and flamer.

Reactive fire can be attempted whenever an enemy unit moves into line of sight of one of your units that has not been activated.

The way I read this, the reactive fire is triggered as soon as the attacking unit moves, thus, the units are not yet in close combat. This defines the difference between range 1 and close combat "C" weapons. 1 range weapons can fire, C cannot.

That makes very little sense. C weapons ARE range 1.

Loophole Master said:

Full agree.

All weapons are range 1.

But C weapons are only used when you are engaged. So if the guy beside you isnt attacking your squad you wont get to use your C attacks.

I would rule that you could only use reactive fire wiht C weapons if you are adjacent with a unit and it moves away from you. Then that player would have the option to stop, fire and fight back with range C at the cost of 1 action or to move on and let you resolve your C attacks as they fall back/move away.

Peacekeeper_b said:

No, there is no such thing as engaged in DUST.

C is a weapon with range 1 with special rule about counting casualities and response thats it. There is no Assault or HH phase in Dust.

Poyet said:

Yes, but it cannot be used until the unit who has the turn has attacked. If I stood beside you and didnt fire, you dont get to use knife or knife and grenade. Only if I shot at you.

So yes, there is such a thing as Engaged in Dust Tactics. Its just not blantantly labeled as such.

My apologies poyet, just reread the rule and it does seem to imply that you could feasibly reactive fire with Class C weapons.

However, I still stand by my understanding that if my squad finishes its move beside yours, and it has no actions left and therefore does not attack your squad, that we do not immediate resolve Class C weapons. However, if I use the Charge ability to move twice and then attack with C and 1 weapons, you may retaliate with C as necessary.

So the notion still exists of "locked" "engaged" or "melee" combat does apply. Its just not a hard fast rule written in ink. Otherwise charge becomes a useless ability to have. Someone who is active must attack in order for C weapons to be used.

Peacekeeper_b said:

Well, you're right. If your squad moves besides mine and has no actions left, we do not resolve C attacks. I can't use Reactive Fire if the active squad has already spent all his actions. Reactive Fire must be rolled between the active squad's 1st and 2nd actions...

Peacekeeper_b said:

What's useless about an ability that lets you make double move and still attack? Specially if your unit favours Range 1 and C weapons?

FAQ is out, POYET for the win! LOL.