If I play Rage on a Lt or Avatar, and then declare a Battle Action, do I get four attacks like Quick~shot, or three?

This also brings up Charge , do I play Charge , then declare a Running Action then move double my movement spaces?

I just remembered that no cards are in play during Avatar battles. So I guess this question is more regarding Lt encounters.

Veritech said:

Charge wrote:
Play when you activate a monster. Double the monster's speed for this activation.

The monster's speed is doubled so it gets double the normal MPs for whatever action it declares.
This means that a Running Charging monster gets 4x 'speed' MPs - 2x (run) double (charge) speed.

Rage wrote:
Play when you activate a monster. The monster may attack twice during this activation (four times if it has Quick Shot).

The Monster may attack twice (4x with Quickshot). Not "one extra time" or 'double your number of attacks", just "may attack twice". Battle merely lets the monster attack twice as well, so Battle + Rage does nothing extra at all .

Enraged wrote:
Play when you activate a monster. Double the monster's speed for this activation. I n addition, the monster may attack twice during this activation (4 times if it has Quick Shot).

This is, literally (word for word apart from the 'joining' part), Charge + Rage.
A monster doing this doubles its speed and can attack twice (4x Quickshot).

Here is how it works when you have a Lt who can Battle or Run and is Enraged/Raged/Charges:

Lt Battles: Enrage/Charges gives him 2x speed. Battle gives him 0xspeed MP - net total 0MP. Don't 'charge' a battling Lt! Battle allows him 2 attacks. Enrage/Rage allows him 2 attacks. He has 2 attacks and both Battle and Rage/Enrage have been satisfied. If the Lt battles, don't Rage him!
If you follow the wording exactly, a Battling Enraged Lt has 0x2xSpeed MP (=0), and 2 attacks.
Note that this is exactly enforced by the GLOAQ ruling.

Lt Runs: Enrage/Charges gives him 2x speed. Run gives him Speedx2 MP. Therefore he has 4x 'normal' MP. He also has 0 attacks if Run+Charge, the two attacks on the card if Run+Enrage.

People screw this up all the time because they paraphrase Charge/Rage as 'doubling' a part of a normal activation, which they superficially resemble, and which works perfectly ok for a normal monster. But it is not a normal monster activation when a Lt Battles or Runs, and the paraphrase stops working. Just play the cards exactly as they read...

So in other words, Charge is useful while Running or doing an Advance, Enraged and Rage are useful when doing an Advance, and none of them are useful when doing a Battle Action. There is still some good advantage to those benefits. Thanx for the clear answer.

I would do a run action, then play rage/enrage for lots of movement plus attacks

Veritech said:

Rage and enrage are most useful doing a Run action - an Advance is a waste if you are planning to play these cards as you get the same number of attacks and twice the movement with a Run.
But yes, none of them are useful when Battling.

lol lack of good editing pre posting on my part, that should have included Rage and Enrage in the benefits with the Running Action . I realized after duhtch's post that I had erred in my typing.

This decided me on buying an event treachery point (even though it's 20 CT) to include two Rage cards in my hand for next games Lt encounter. It was either that or go with a Dark Charm and Crushing Block after buying a point of Trap Treachery (only 5 CT less). As much as I like Dark Charm, being able to outmaneuver the heroes with a high speed, multi attack, teleporting Lt with Blast should prove to be useful.

blast doesn't hit people in trees

duhtch said:

Technically it is not true. A miniature can be affected by a blast if it is originated from an adjacent space to the tree.

Trees are going to be an issue with the use of Blast , however the encounter map they drew has "Any figure which enters a tree takes 1 point of damage ignoring armor from Thorns". I will have to play this level with alot of thought when it comes to the use of Blast. I suspect however that like the last level (bottomless pit with three knockback opponents and a windy hallway) I can outmaneuver the heroes once more, even if they use the trees for shadowcloak.

gran_orco said:

you are right, it is just a pain in the butt to do it, and usually not worth it. but yes, it is possible.

duhtch said:

Is this correct? I seem to recall somewhere that it was always the figure of attack that was the point of attack (unless using spiritwalker), regardless of any templates or blast effects.

Grubsnik said:

You are correct, so was gran_orco.

ABC
DEF
GHI

If the Tree is E then a figure at A targeting a blast 1 attack at C will affect the figure in the tree. The origin of the attack (A) is adjacent to the tree (E).

Aye it's totally possible, however there are still huge negative consequences to being able to still make this attack. First it forces you to close the distance with the heroes (not good especially for ranged attackers, and especially for Lts). This puts you in line of fire of any Ranged or Magic based Guard orders as you move in, This could turn out even worse if it was a Melee hero you had to move adjacent to, especially if they as well had a Guard order. Also if there is any distance to cover to close for attack you aren't likely to be able to retreat after the attack to a safe distance against the hero groups next round of turns leaving you exposed to heavy counterattack. In some cases you could blunt the risk of Guards with eneogh monsters if you have them at hand and they are eneogh of a threat to pull Guard orders. All this for one attack on the hero party (if you have eneogh threat to spend you can gain additional movement and damage making this a one time hard hit, however you're still risking that dreaded X).

In the case of the Lt battle about to ensue (called off today due to a player illness). The Lt is Lord Merrik Farrow, his advantages are, can use 5 MP to teleport anywhere in his line of sight, blast 1, range +6, and starts off with 15 threat. I have one Spawn and one Event treachery. I added two Beastman spawn cards and two Rage cards to my hand. Monster upgrades are Gold level Humanoid, and Silver level Eldritch. By the start of my second turn I'll have the first reinforcements of Beastmen in (start with 4 Skeletons, 3 Sorcerers and a Manticore). The encounter card drawn is from ToI, It uses the largest map part on the outdoor side, lots of trees, very limited areas with LoS over any distance (as well the 1 wound ignoring armor all tree spaces have).

I plan on taking out the magic user and rapid fire ranged user as quick as possible. This battle will require alot of strategy on my part and I may still have to flee. If I can take out everyone but the Tank with minimal losses I might have a chance to win this fight. The hero group would be forced to attack him again the next week with an upgrade to Gold (4 CT away, either way this battle goes at the end we'll be at the Gold level) as he puts his last siege token on the city being able to roll for razes the next week.

At a cost of 20 xp to buy I was hesitant to add an event treachery to my pool (Heroes 250ish CT, OL 140ish), however adding Crushing Blow to my deck is something at this point I can't pass up. As well, two Rage cards will give me an heavy surprise attack/move, twice if combined with a Running action. My best hope is to outmaneuver the hero group to maximize the effect of using these cards with the least amount of risk to the Lt. Being able to teleport if planned right will be another huge advantage.

But as they say, all the best laid plans last till the first arrow leaves the bow...