I may have accidentally fubared Warhammer lore. I am looking for some opinions on how I could fix this without changing any of the events that took place.

I have tried to keep the tone of my Warhammer game in character, logical, and underlined the fact that every action has an equal or greater reaction, so players should consider their actions. One of my players could not make one session. Fortunately, it was very easy to write him out of the session he missed. The last session ended with a fight against Uri and a bunch of his thugs in the alleys of Oggasse. I simply started the session with his character reaching up to rub a hand her hair (he is playing a female wood elf), starting in surprise as her hand came away covered in blood, and then passing out. The adrenaline rush from the fight caused her to not realize that one of the wounds she took was a lot worse than she thought. Her allies rushed her to the closest Shallyan, who happened to be Sister Lena Marks, who sent a message to Shallyans from the great temple in Altdorf, who in turn came to take the wood elf to the Shallyan temple so that they could care for her and nurse her back to health.

Now, when the character returned next session I had her wake up at the temple. The player asked if his character's things were on her. I said that her things were all neatly folded and placed under the cot where she woke up. She took one look at the white robed priest with a dove symbol hanging from a chain around her neck, and proceeded to grab her dagger from under the cot, grab the Shallyan comming to attend to her upon her waking up, place the dagger at her throat, and threaten her life. I told the player that his character recognizes the symbol as that of the Shallyan priests, and offered him a chance to rethink his character's actions. The player decided to commit to his first choice of action.

I hadn't expected that, and had to think on my feet. I didn't want the player to get the idea that he could go around threatening peoples lives without fallout. Since this temple is a major temple, whose doors are always open to all, and who often tend to the sick, wounded, and crazy, I figured that it is very likely that a priest had been threatened more than once. I decided that the temple would probably have a knightly order guarding it, an order dedicated to protecting Shallyan hospitals and hospices, pretty much something akin to the Knights Hospitaler. I decided that the sister coming to attend to the elf would first scream in terror; this attracted two Knights Hospitaler. The Knights ordered the elf to put down her dagger and let the Shallyan Sister go. Being Shallyans, they prefer to avoid bloodshed when they can. The elf let go of the Shallyan sister, but did not want to draw her weapons. The situation got a little tense. The elf did not want to listen right away. Luckily, during this time the rest of the party were on their way to check up on the elf, and ended up walking into the situation. Unluckily, one of the party members told the hospitalers that the elf was only dangerous when she was holding a bow, and by this time the elf was holding a bow (albeit unstrung). Finally, between the two hospitalers and the party, the elf was convinced to throw down her weapons. The knights, being Shallyans, did not leap to take revenge and cause bloodshed. Instead, they escorted the elf off the premises, and handed back almost all of her things. They did not send the elf to the authorities. They did not cause her any injury. But they did chastise her, told her that her actions had made her unwelcome (though they may not have been speaking with the actual authority of the Shallyan temple, and rather were probably speaking from their hearts due to the fact that a sister was threatened under their watch), and one of them broke her bow over his knee (it being a weapon of death, and according to the party one that made the elf very dangerous ie: without mercy).

After the session I went to do a little more research on Shallyans. I am not sure that such a knightly order fits the Shallyan church. The only thing I could find online about Shallyan Hospitalers were a group that did not wear full plate armor (which the knights I described did), and wielded only broken quarterstaffs. Was the knightly order I created very out of character for Shallyans? Considering that the characters did not have access to any information in regards to who the two armored knights were (an merely assumed that they were Shallyan templers/guards), what behind the scene details can I add to make the situation fit with the lore of the world (if my original behind the scene details do not quite fit the theme of the Shallyan church)? Or, does a knightly order dedicated to protecting Shallyan temples and priests seem quite logical, and their actions fitting to the circumstances?

The Shallyans don't tend toward the trappings of war that is true. BUT you can easily explain it within the flavour of the world as a small isolated group of charitable knights looking after that specific temple in a non officio type relationship. The Shallyan cult relies heavily upon donations and charity so I wouldn't think that it would be entirely unreasonable to say that the reverend mother welcomed a group of knights that had agreed (for whatever reason) to look after her temple for security purposes.

If that fails to satisfy your players then perhaps in YOUR version of Warhammer the Shallyan cult actually has some hardcore badasses that act like bouncers in their temples. I don't think it would cause any hate mail to show up at your door, as long as you update the In MY Warhammer thread

Sounds like you did pretty well to me. What was the player thinking, anyway, being a nutter in the house of peace? I'd be interested to know his reasoning.

One of the good things about the Warhammer World is that although it's pretty firmly grounded and rationalised there's usually plenty of room for manoeuvre if you require it. With cult organisations it's easy to imagine a wide range of interpretations and sub-cults throughout the Old World. Even if the vast majority of Shallyans will not take a life, there's bound to be some group or other who might consider it ok in extreme circumstances. Even if most temples don't employ armed or armoured guards, there's bound to be a few that do. It might be down to a heavy theological schism, or experience (maybe they had a few riots last month) or simply an eccentric high priest.

And iirc the broken quarterstaff thing (from Bergsburg, right?) is just a bit of fan effort; you can take it or leave it even more than you can take or leave the official stuff. But, ime, you can always find a vaguely plausible excuse to cover up any 'mistakes' you make in the heat of the game, or changes you might wish to make after the fact. And sometimes those excuses can lead to more interesting games. Maybe the high priest has ordered his guards to be armoured, expressly against the wishes of his superiors, coz he's corrupted and being visited by strange visions sent from one of the dark gods in order to divide the local cult, as part of a wider plan...

I'd have let him kill the priestess and then send my most wicked with hunter after him. Chasing him for several sessions until he finally falls in an ambush where his companions have to let him burn to save their own lives. If they refuse I'll burn them all - but with the current group I'm sure one of the other players would bring him to justice (Although one of them have a very bad childhood experience in a shallyan orphanage... they may be peaceful, but a stern upbringing with physical punishment would be normal. Almost no one in my world is 100% pure and good... everything is different shades of grey).

Who knows, perhaps the priestess had it comming

When my group gets more accustomed to the warhammer FRPG after their 4e games I might take that route Gallows. Right now, I don't think it would be fair to punish them for that sort of approach for more than a single session.

As for what the player was thinking, I have no idea. That wasn't the only time he managed to nearly get himself in a ton of trouble. Later on the group managed to run afoul of Lena Marks. She didn't believe them that her volunteer, Elena (at least, I think that is her name. I can't remember without looking in my notes), was in fact a chaos tainted mutant (the group failed to convinceLena due to some unlucky rolls). Through a set of convoluted circumstances Lena ended up calling the city guard on the group, but the group had already gone down into the Chaos temple and saved all of the kidnapped (wizard) apprentices. The group had them holed up in the Owl's Quill while they were trying to figure out what to do. In any case, they decided that the guard coming to get them wasn't such a bad thing. They had a few hours until sundown (and Geheimnistag night). They still hadn't figured out who in the Oggasse district was the head of the chaos cult. The guard coming would give them a chance to get someone else to watch the drugged apprentices while they could continue to try and investigate the cult. So, they stayed put and let the guard come and pick them up. They didn't succeed in convincing the guards to let them go (again, due to unlucky rolls), so the group, the apprentices, and the guards all headed over to the nearest guard house so that the group could try and convince the captain.

The captain spent some time talking to each of the players. Things were not going terribly. He was a little suspicious, but all in all their story panned out. The only problem was that there was no proof that Elena was a mutant, because the group had already burned her body (not to leave possible sources of corruption lying around). So, the group admitted to having killed her, but the only proof of her guilt was their word, and Lena said that it was impossible that Elena was as evil as the group claimed; according to Lena she was just an odd youth with a heart full of good intentions. And then the captain started talking to the elf.

Rumors of the events in the Shallyan temple had spread through the city by this point in time, and members of the city watch, who try and keep abreast of such rumors, had informed the captain that there was an elf in the city possibly causing trouble; an elf who had supposedly threatened a Shallyan sister with a knife (it happened in a public room, so the event had been witnessed). Lena, meanwhile, had already talked to the city watch about the group. The captain, putting two and two together, thought it likely that the elf in question might be the same elf who had threatened a Shallyan sister earlier (as Lena was also a Shallyan sister, and it didn't seem likely that two different elves would cause problems with Shallyan sisters in the same day). The elf admited to having threatened the first Shallyan sister, and had the audacity to complain to the guard that the Hospitalers had broken her bow. The guard, incredulous that someone would actually threaten a sister of mercy with a knife, told the elf that she was lucky to have escaped with only a broken bow, as threatening a sister of mercy with a knife was an unforgivable offense. The elf continued to complain about the lost bow, basically saying something allong the lines of the crime did not warrant the punishment. The captain asked, "did you or did you not threaten a sister of mercy with a knife?" The elf replied, "Yes, I did. Do something about it!"

So, every other player (and character) around the table (or on the guard's bench, respectively) did a face to palm at this point in time. The captain's mood soured, obviously (it is never a good idea to goad a guard). He told the group they would be staying in the guard house until the next morning. He would not be putting any of them in a cell, unless they misbehaved, except for the elf; she would be spending the night in the cells. He then demanded that she relieve herself of all her weapons. Now, I have a rule at my game table. My rule is that everything said must be in character. Conversation that occur are in character. I make an exception for something which a player specifically says is out of character, though I frown on using that for anything other than asking the GM (me) a question to clarify the situation. The elf starts having a conversation with one of her allies about escaping. All of her allies frown at her. The ally she asks to help her flat out says no. The wizard apprentice in the group tells her that if she tries anything, he will burn her to cinders himself. The captains says, "you know I am standing right here and can hear you, right?" Again a tense moment passes as we all wait to find out if the elf is going to try and fight the guards by herself. Thankfully, she ended up giving up her weapons.

I don't know if this is the result of too many 4e D&D sessions or what...

The player's instinctual "hey I'm a super hero" may come from too much D&D 4E. But that kind of ballsey bravado sort of...fits with a Wood Elf in Warhammer (at least partially...some of that player's antics speak more to a fundamental issue with the human behind the dice than anythingn else). Wood Elves are xenophobic (or at least racist), hauty and aloof and probably get really really testy when spending too much time inside the "midden heaps" that are Empire cities. They have spent a lot of time brooding over the injustices they suffered during the war of the beard/vengeance, couple that with their distrust of humans who live and die so fast that no bargain will stick for longer than a couple of decades and you've got a people that just...flat out don't play nice. Of course they also are smart/wise/sensible enough (on average...and maybe your wood elf is a bit more of a wild-animal than a pondering type) to realise that the shear numbers of humans and other worse things that exist in the world require one to pick your battles.

You really have to boil a wood elf down to laws of nature rather than laws of morality or tradition. You can't very well kick a hornet's nest and hope to vanquish all the insects before they sting you...but go ahead and try if you want to.

She is in that situation now (in character). Out of character the player may be feeling put upon or cornered (his character has been knocked out while away for a session, had "mongrel people" tending her wounds, been disarmed by their "warriors" twice, and is going to be thrown in a dungeon whilst her companions sit back and make further threats...stinking humans!). So far you can still rationalise some of the actions that your player has made and still be well within bounds of behavoir in the Warhammer world (afterall the setting is designed to spark battles between these races!...and now we're roleplaying in it ). Perhaps if one of the other players began to treat her like a frightened/cornered/wild animal they could calm her down and talk a little bit of common sense into this "foaming-at-the-mouth-pointy-eared-savage." In game it would probably go a ways toward that character not being dungeon fodder, and out of game the player might feel like he is actually part of the group instead of "odd-man-playing-a-woman-out." However, there really is no accounting for actions of a player that is just hell-bent on going left when everyone else goes right. Luckily Warhammer has ways of sorting that out (okay Sven you go left...off a cliff...hand me your character sheet).

Heh. Yea. It is true, the fact that he is playing a wood elf does rationalize quite a bit of his characters actions.

So for me, I've removed wood elves from my games, at least until I run a specific campaign for wood elves. IMO, I have trouble thinking how they fit into society.

As for the players, have the Temple be a hidden cult dedicated to Nurgle. The priestess turns into a great unclean one, devourers the player and then get that wood elf out of the party. Have the player create a character more tame...like a troll slayer.

Regarding Shallyan knights:

Way back in the days of WFRP First Edition, I came up with the Order of the Holy Thorn (I think that's what I called them). They had a backstory involving a legend of some particularly holy priestess of Shallya who was accosted by brigands. When all seemed darkest, a rosebush miraculously grew to surround the priestess, its thorns keeping the brigands at bay.

Inspired by that tale, these knights consider themselves the successors of that rosebush's task, and while they themselves take no vows to Shallya, they are sworn to protect Shallya's followers. Thus they avoid being tied to the Shallyan heirarchy, and need not eschew violence (though most resort to bloodshed as a last resort, in deference to the sensitivities of their charges). Of course, this makes their relationship with the Shallyans rather complicated; the knights are scrupulously polite to Shallyans, but will not hesitate to use force of arms if necessary to protect any Shallyan from violence -- even over that Shallyan's protests. Many Shallyan priests and priestesses fill their evenings writing long, complicated treatises arguing back and forth about the "correct" way to respond to the existence and operations of the Order of the Holy Thorn.

TL;DR: Having knights show up in Shallyan facilities to beat up wrongdoers is perfectly acceptable.

jakeboone said:

Unbelievably cool jakeboone! I am stealing the pants off your idea.

I agree with Callidon, super cool knightly order. I will steal them and use them in my game.

Agreed. Awesome suggestion. I plan on using it. Those two knights were in fact knights of the rose/thorn...