p. 244 Deathwatch-rulebook: "The maximum total bonus that can be applied to a test is +60. Conversely, the maximum total penalty that can be applied to a test is –60."

Does this apply to focus power tests and opposed willpower tests as well?

Yes.

It applies to all tests, AFAIK

Ok, i feared someone would say that. What sense does the following talent make then ?:

p. 114 Deathwatch rulebook: " Bastion of Iron Will
Prerequisites: Psy Rating, Strong Minded, Willpower 40 The character’s sheer willpower and psychic focus have become one and the same over years of practice and training, such that their combined use is second nature. The character doubles his Psy Rating on any Opposed Test involving the Psyniscience Skill or Psychic Powers. "

This, together with a highish PR of 8 (available at Rank 6) ALONE leads to a bonus of 60 for the Test.

Additional effects potentially giving a bonus to the Test would be a psychic hood (+5), a higher PR (up to 2, so another +20 after doubling for the above talent) and last but not least: Overcasting (another 4 PR together with Talent "Warp Conduit" -> +40 after doubling). This brings the potential bonus up to 125!

AFAIK there are no applicable penalties for these (Focus Power / Opposed Willpower) tests. So what gives / was intended here?

Additional info: I originally asked because the paragraph cited on page 244 of the rulebook is in chapter "Combat", heading "The Attack", subheading "Step One: Apply Modifiers To Attacker’s Characteristic". Which makes it a rather odd place for a general rule applying to all tests imho.

+/-60 is just a hard-cap on modifiers to ensure that there's nearly always *some* chance of success or failure. Presumably it's there to stop players just piling on modifiers for silly results. Min-max for diminishing returns!

It is buried away in an odd place, but that's what it's supposed to do.

Not sure about the specifics of psi powers, as I don't have the rules here with me.

Yes, the key thing to note that it caps at +/- 60 after all modifiers have been applied. So you might have +90 modifiers, and -20 modifiers, for a net +60 mechanically. Think like Daemonic presences, -10 WP. Now the librarian is not as affected by that.

KommissarK said:

This, totally. It's when you'll have Fatigue, be under hard mental pression and the likes that you'll be happy to still get +30 because you had "overkill" bonuses to the WP test

Of course it doesn't happen everyday. That's a choice, after all.

Not to mention the ability to use your full PR for the roll when using a power 'Fettered' which by then can still be rather effective.

Siranui said:

That goes out the window once someone's characteristic gets to 40 or more, at +60 would still take them to 100, meaning they can't fail. And guess what: Starting characteristics are 2d10+30, meaning that the average starting characteristic for any space marine character is 41. And that's ignoring the +5 bonus chapters get to some characteristics.

But as long as their characteristic is below 60, total modifiers of -60 still put the character into the always fail zone.

So there are characters where a maximum bonus will have them always succeed. There are characters where a maximum penalty will have them always fail. There are characters in between where both is true. So how does the cap "ensure that there's nearly always *some* chance of success or failure" ?

Any example you give that refer to modifiers within, or even exactly on, the +/- 60 limit won't help you, because those examples would be unchanged with the removal of the limit.

Presumably it's there to stop players just piling on modifiers for silly results.

Do you have any examples of silly results the +/-60 rule prevents ?

Because I can't think of any.

Bilateralrope said:

The Devastator in my group has a BS of 73. Firing a Heavy Bolter on Full-Auto (+20) against a Mag 60 Horde (+40) hits the +60 cap by itself, before considering bonuses from a Signum or Signum Link, Motion Predictor, or any other effects that would grant a benefit to his to-hit rolls. With the +60, a roll of 90 scores 4 Degrees of Success, and it only gets better from there, allowing him to fairly reliably score the maximum number of hits. Any further bonuses would push his BS and consequently his Degrees of Success up even further.

Yeah, I think the +/-60 rule is fairly important here...

Bilateralrope said:

The heavy weapon is the classic. It just becomes abusive when players heap on mods to the point where they physically cannot achieve less than 5 DoS. Feinting is another situation where a player can -without picking up dice- achieve enough DoS to make every blow impossible to parry. Opposed rolls are an obvious target for such abuse.

what kind of modifiers would be used for a focus power test though

Fatigue -10

Under a fear effect -10

Perception reduced to zero is -30

Level 1 head crit -10 for 1 round

Plus anything else the GM wants:

Being distracted by someting: -whatever

Being picked up and shaken around by a demon while trying to do it: -30

Warp insability in the area: -whatever

Drunk: -whatever

Another major benefit of that talent that you are overlooking is the effect it has on the damage of certain powers. Crown of the Emperor for example is an opposed WP test dealing 1d10xPR damage. You have PR 8. Lets say you push the power adding another +4 PR. The Bastion of Iron Will doubles the total PR to 24. So thats 24d10 damage. Essentially a guaranteed one shot of anything. There are many other powers that are opposed that benefit tremendously from this talent allowing you to deal ridiculous damage even at the fettered level.

Vladimus said:

I don't think the damage would be increased. The PR gets doubled for the opposed test but nothing else. You would still "only" hit with 12d10.

Yeah. It seems to say you double your PR for the purposes of the Focus Power test, not for calculating the damage of the power itself (even if the precondition to the power's damage is an opposed Focus Power test).